Something is wrong with vegans!

Beautiful steakI just read an article today talking about a group of New Zealanders who fancy themselves as so-called “vegansexuals” – that is, they only have sex with other vegans. Supposedly this all stems from them not wanting to be exposed to people who have “filled themselves with decomposing carcasses”. This begs the question… what the heck is wrong with vegans?

A rudimentary perusing of the vegans’ literature and “statements of faith” [my term] will shock most sensible people. While the pursuit of humane treatment for animals is noble – and something I greatly agree with – the thought that by simply not eating meat, fish, or dairy (and actually a bazillion other things you’d never think were animal-related) you are avoiding negatively affecting the natural environment and the animal kingdom is laughable… laughable in a riotous hyena-slapping kind of way [and I recommend a little more iron from red meat might stimulate the brain waves into clearer thinking].

You see… as a living creature ourselves, humans consume their surroundings. We breath the surrounding oxygen… we eat the surrounding plants and animals (mmm… tasty animals)… we occupy the surrounding shelter. We actively displace the natural environment – be it plant or animal – that would otherwise occupy our space… and we consume the food and resources that would otherwise sustain that nature we are displacing. We partake in a society that burns fossil fuels. Every day we live pollutes the land. We are the antithesis of environmentally-friendly.

So the very existence of a vegan is a paradox at best… and vegans having children is outright hypocrisy. Each living vegan is negatively impacting the plant and animal kingdom. The only way to really, truly stop adversely affecting the environment is to kill yourself. So any vegan who is spreading their “faith” has obviously not killed themselves, and decided that selfishly living in knowing exploitation of nature is better… and should thus not be taken very seriously.

And besides… if we weren’t meant to eat animals, why are so many made of steak? :-) Those wishing to truly help nature and the animal kingdom should visit Ted Nugent’s hunting website or Easy Wild Game Recipes.

u comment i follow 179 Comments

  1. Posted August 1, 2007 at 4:34 am | Permalink

    Your approach to criticising veganism is very faulty and common of someone who doesn’t quite understand the philosophy in itself. If you criticise veganism with a “utopian paradigm” of course you come up with the startling conclusion that veganism is not in fact a perfect solution to the problems of the world. Veganism and animal rights seeks to greatly reduce animal explotation, bodily, and worldy harm of living beings.

  2. Montane
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Adam- WarAxe is not criticizing veganism for not being perfect, but that it is a set of wispy notions built on faulty assumptions that only serves to make those people who label themselves as such feel good about themselves. I’ll not rehash The argumentsin the original post, but here are some others. First, what about plants. Plants are just as alive as animals, and when we eat or wear them we are directly harming living beings. And you can imagine what I could say about the untold billions of bacteria living and dying around you daily. Second, I would think that a humane farm that harvested milk and eggs would be the most acceptable. No animals are exploited, bodily or worldly harmed. (and having first-hand knowledge of farm animals, milk-cows are not unhappy). A somewhat more consistent philosophy would be to eat ONLY those products coming from animals or plants which are renewable – eggs and milk and fruits and nuts – and clothing oneself in only wool. Now I say this is only only a bit more consistent because, as WarAxe said, our existence means that we impact the environment and animals (and plants and bacteria) will suffer and die for it, and if you are really serious about not harming another living thing, then might I suggest a gallon of antifreeze or carbon monoxide inhalation, both painless.

    Now I am all for reducing suffering. And truthfully, deer are better off if we hunt them. We have killed off the wolves and now there are too many deer, and they starve.And the do not starve by just the excess amount. Example – if there is enough food for 10 and there are 20 deer, there are not ten healthy deer and ten skeletal deer, there are 20 half-fed deer. A true animal lover would go out today, buy a rifle or shot-gun, and relish his (or her) venison tenderloin in the morning.

  3. Posted August 1, 2007 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    @ Adam :: I would say that it *is* my understanding of the philosophy itself that drives my criticism. I have no issue with vegan practices… but vegans have issue with my practices, and that’s where their philosophy becomes fair game [pardon the pun]. What could be more of a “utopian paradigm” than the principles behind veganism? And that’s really what this is all about. Veganism is “feel-good” behavior driven by a failure to accept the order of things (and probably failure to accept the second law of thermodynamics).

    @ Montane :: Wow… I couldn’t have said it better myself. Great points all around. Especially good illustration of the neo-symbiotic relationship between farm animals and farmers… a correlation the vegans outright reject. But that demonstrates the “kookiness” of the belief system. Like you said, I could understand dietary eccentricities based on personal preference… but not wearing silk because silkworms “feel pain”? Not wearing iridescent eye shadow because it’s made of insect wings? No beer because it’s clarified with fish swim bladders? No apples because they’re shellac-ed with insect resin? No dried bananas because they’re dipped in honey? And what’s wrong with honey?

    Oh yes… I hadn’t even touched on the plant kingdom – who the vegan community sees fit to ravage for its own sustenance.

    Hey, if farm animals reproduce (by any means), doesn’t that make them a renewable energy source? :-)

  4. Posted August 9, 2007 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    I liked your comment so much (if we weren’t meant to eat animals, why are so many made of steak?) that i took it for my tagline. Hope you don’t mind. I DO love to burn cowflesh on my grill. ;-)

  5. capo
    Posted August 16, 2007 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    The thing I find ironic is that most of the people I’ve talked to who are concerned with the welfare of animals to the point of activism of one type or another are also champions of “a woman’s right to choose”. Why is it baby humans don’t warrant at least the same concern as baby seals?

  6. Posted August 16, 2007 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    @ Gary :: Have fun with it! :-)

    @ capo :: Yeah, an excellent point. The more I listen to “them” the more illogic I hear.

  7. Ben
    Posted August 25, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Brilliant, I’ve come to be incredibly fond of your posts.

  8. Posted August 31, 2007 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    @ Ben :: :-) Thanks. Keep visiting… in a few weeks when i get a new design up I’ll probably be spouting short bursts of sharp-reason much more frequently.

  9. Native
    Posted September 2, 2007 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    GARY…..how dare you treat the flesh of dead animals with such blantant disrespect. Burning it on your BBQ grill!!! May your hands rot off at the wrists. It is…”Medium Well” please :)

    “Vegitarian is and old indian word….for lousy hunter. Vegan is the an old indian word for….crazy lousy hunter.” unknown

  10. Posted October 5, 2007 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Loved this post. I know a Vegan or two and you’re right – its all about “feeling good” at its base. Many ways the Veganism in my observation meets a religious impulse for those who otherwise don’t believe in such things.

    Personally I don’t care what others choose to eat or not eat – me I’ve got a pretty broad palate when it comes to food and as Anthony Bourdain has stated: “This is anti-curiosity and anti-human” to paraphrase.

  11. John3Sobieski
    Posted October 8, 2007 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Veganism seems to me to be just a religious and more extreme form of leftist environmentalism.

  12. Posted November 28, 2007 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Oh man, that photo is making me soooo hungry!

    I’d say with vegans it’s not so much feeling good, but feeling superior.

  13. moo
    Posted June 22, 2008 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    You know what vegans find leg-slappingly funny (or at the very least, absolutely tiresome)? …Pretty much all the statements that this fine gathering of gentleman have made. None of these arguments are unique, nor are they intelligent. Thankfully vegans are accustomed to this sort of behaviour, thus goes the rules of truth (As per “Earthlings”):

    1) Ridicule
    2) Violent Opposition
    3) Acceptance

    You my friends, are having a pretty great time laughing it up with your buddies at the vegan collective’s expense. Pretty status quo. The government and corporations certainly take care of the violent opposition bit, so hopefully you’ll stay out of that arena. Thanks for you thoughts, but I always wonder what you guys are so afraid of? You obviously feel pretty threatened for some reason.

    Just because you can’t do everything, doesn’t mean you should do nothing and then find your own apathy amusing.

  14. Posted June 22, 2008 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    @moo
    Your name sounds tasty… but I’ll try and respond despite the distraction.

    Your comments are highly amusing… and bereft of any logical line of reasoning to support your “points” (which is how I know you’re an actual vegan and not just a vegetarian).

    I love how you start off with sexism… mix in some random insults… and then finish off with a demi-glaze of condescension. Ha! :-) Is this typical of all Canadian gals, or just the vegan ones? [ooooh check it out.. some stereotyping of my own!]

    And BTW, plants have feelings, too, ya know.

  15. DON'T DO NOTHING
    Posted June 22, 2008 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t take the time to look at all your names, but with names such as, John, Raymond, Ben, Gary, and WarAxe, I couldn’t help but assume that you were all men.

    I was working on more of a response, but I know that it’s not worth it.

  16. Posted June 22, 2008 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Not to sound too trite, but you would have done better to respond to one of the many points already put forth with your opposing viewpoint… and then back up your point with some basic reasoning.

    You did neither. You did nothing, really. Perhaps the reason you aren’t hearing any “unique” arguments is because you have failed so miserably to address the ones already in front of you.

    And has Canada become so desolate that “leg-slappingly funny” and “absolutely tiresome” are that close? :-)

  17. T.J. Mock
    Posted June 26, 2008 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    One point that was not mentioned in the above posts is the fact that Vegans and Vegetarians are eating the solution to global warming.

    If such a thing exists.

  18. Human
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Why are you censoring me?

  19. Human
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Nevermind.

  20. Posted June 30, 2008 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    @Human/Moo/DON’T DO NOTHING
    Thanks for paying attention. I hear a little meat in the diet might help overall awareness… might replace some of that iron.

  21. n/a
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    It’s unfortunate that prejudiced people often feel that vegans are obligated to justify their lifestyle on a continual basis. Most vegans were at one time, an average meat-eater; however upon learning the truth, they decided to change their own habits. The full breadth of veganism is generally unknown; therefore people would rather speculate and poke fun. Sadly this is the reaction present whenever people are confronted with something that is contrary to common opinion.

    “It is the fate of every truth to be an object of ridicule when it is first acclaimed.”
    – Albert Schweitzer

    In the not so distant past, it was acceptable to treat women and children as property, to enslave black citizens, and torture and exterminate Jews. Women were not allowed to vote and gay people were unheard of. Those at the forefront of all of the movements to change these ideologies were/are laughed at, jailed, tortured and even killed.

    Just because past history dictates that racism, sexism, ageism, specism, homophobia, etc., etc., are okay, does not mean that society has any right to continue utilizing the very same faulty reasoning in “modern” society. “Might” alone does not make any action right.

    The US government reinforces the condemnation of activists by signing into law, the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, which is intended to target animal rights activists and environmental activists. This law penalizes damage and interference to animal enterprises or conspiring or attempting to damage or interfere with an animal enterprise. “Animal enterprises” are concerned about losing any profit due to activists and the information they may distribute. Why is it that no similar laws exist for other industries? The individuals that they call “terrorists” are the sort of “terrorists” that do not kill other humans, but merely attempt to show the truth to citizens while protecting those animals that are being exploited. It is in the public’s best interest for industry transparency to exist and for the public to know the truth. By demonizing activists, the government and corporations attempt to keep their “opponents” quiet, as well as further add to the false assumptions that average individuals make about these “movements”.

    Vegan-sexual. This term does not apply to all vegans. I’m certain that there are plenty of vegans who hate this term and think it’s ridiculous. Vegans are aware of how this notion will be perceived, “Look at the stupid vegans! They are so crazy!”

    Many vegans are aware of the population problem, just as they are aware of other issues, other than veganism. Adoption or deciding to not have children are viable options for everyone, if they would rather not contribute to the population. I personally never plan on having children.

    Contrary to what you stated, vegetables do not have a central nervous system and cannot feel pain, nor can they have “feelings”. All animals are sentient beings, which means that they feel pain just as intensely as we do. A basic overview of biology would show this.
    Vegans who decide to go vegan for the right reasons, did not do so primarily because they are insecure, lack religious ideologies or want to “feel good” about themselves. This is not to say that there aren’t some holier-than-thou vegans in the world, however they do not represent all vegans, just as one meat-eater does not represent all meat-eaters.

    There are many reasons to go vegan:

    1) For Your Health:
    The American Dietetic Association and the Dieticians of Canada state that an appropriately planned vegetarian diet is healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. They also confirm that a vegan diet, as well as vegetarian diets are fit for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, and infancy. Vegan diets provide everything humans need to thrive, minus cholesterol, saturated fat and most contaminates. A proper vegan diet avoids and/or protects against many common health problems, such as stroke, heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, auto-immune diseases, and cancer, etc. The American Dietetic Association acknowledges that vegetarians have lower rates of death from heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, prostate and colon cancer, as well as a lower probability of becoming obese. In addition, scientists have found that vegetarians have stronger immune systems and may live, on average, 6 to 10 years longer than the typical meat-eater. If you would like to know more, please see the following links and read the following books:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826028?dopt=Citation
    http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/07/27/diabetes-vegan.html
    http://www.rense.com/general/vega.htm
    http://www.gentleworld.org/health/cancer.htm
    http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=649d99a8-df3c-4f8b-89a6-376a6d9d2a94
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/on-cancer-and-a-vegetaria_b_46661.html
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0826/is_n3_v8/ai_12182736/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
    -The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long- term by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. and Thomas M. Campbell
    -Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss by Joel Fuhrman, M.D.
    -Healthy at 100: The Scientifically Proven Secrets of the World’s Healthiest and Long-Lived Peoples by John Robbins
    -The Thrive Diet: The Whole Food Way to Lose Weight, Reduce Stress, and Stay Healthy for Life by Brendan Brazier
    -The Vegan Diet as Chronic Disease Prevention: Evidence Supporting the New Four Food Groups by Kerrie K. Saunders, Ph.D.

  22. n/a
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    2) For Your Wallet:
    Vegan staples such as beans, rice, pasta, nuts, vegetables, soy products, etc., cost much less than animal products. Some of these items can easily be purchased in bulk and kept in storage. If you have the space, you can grow vegetables and fruits yourself. You’ll even save money on future health care and medical costs. In the USA, massive subsidies keep the prices of animal products artificially cheap, because the US government pays for the agribusinesses’ operating costs with tax dollars. Meanwhile, subsidies for vegetable and fruit producers are practically miniscule. The cost of the common hamburger would be $35 if its cost were truly reflected by price. However, the price of meat and dairy never reflects its true cost to the environment and human health. If you would like to learn more, please see the following links:
    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/GoVegetarianToSaveMoney.aspx?page=1
    http://gliving.tv/news/meat-or-health-farm-subsidies-out-of-whack/
    http://www.vegsource.com/harris/politics.htm
    http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2005/07/07/agribusiness_farming_subsidies_destroy_food_security.htm

    3) For the Workers:
    Factory farms and slaughterhouses purposefully locate their operations in poorer regions of the USA, in hopes that they will attract the most desperate, poor and uneducated of the nation’s people. According to statistics from the US Department of Labor’s Bureau for Labor Statistics, nearly 1 in 3 slaughterhouse workers experiences an illness or injury every year, compared to 1 in 10 workers of other manufacturing companies. Human Rights Watch has declared that slaughterhouse workers have “the most dangerous factory job in America”. The industry is reluctant to provide its own workers with proper safety protection, training and slower working conditions, etc. It is very common for workers to become injured and once they do, incidents are not recorded and employees will be fired for taking time off, trying to file a health insurance or workers’ compensation claim or attempting to take part in a union. The industry actively focuses on hiring illegal immigrants and minors, both groups being illegal to employ. In addition, the turn-over rate of employees in this industry is very high. It is an extremely unpleasant occupation that forces human beings to kill and dismember animals for the entire length of their shift, every day. It is not uncommon for those employed by this industry to become addicted to drugs or alcohol (even to use them while working), beat their own families in frustration or develop a criminal record. If nothing else, these workers become permanently changed by their circumstances and either desensitize/ harden themselves to cope, or simply break down. If you would like to read more, please see the following link and read the following book:
    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/usa0105/usa0105.pdf
    http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=nature-health/livestock/meat-industry-violates-human-rights.txt
    http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/1999a/012299/012299f.htm
    - The Jungle by Upton Sinclair

  23. n/a
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    6) For the Animals
    More than 27 billion animals are killed for food alone every year in the USA. Citizens can be charged for harming their own pets, but little is done to discipline those that torture animals in slaughterhouses. Routine acts include such things as mutilation, gene manipulation, extreme drug regimes, cramped housing, transport in extreme weather conditions, and gruesome, violent slaughter, etc. Generally any laws that are violated during production go unnoticed, and certainly unrecorded. It is not uncommon for workers to physically beat or sexually abuse animals, as well as to remove limbs and skin, while animals are completely conscious and aware. Just as animals are sentient beings, they are also intelligent and have their own unique methods of survival and communication. As a society that allows specism, human beings justify the killing and torture of hundreds of billions of animals for the sake of human profit and consumption. As per the award winning documentary, Earthlings, humans exploit animals in the following ways:
    1)Pets: Dogs, cats, fish, birds, rodents, etc.
    2)Food: Meat, dairy, animal fats, derivatives for processed foods such as gelatin, etc.
    3)Clothing: Leather, fur, silk, wool, exotic animal skin, etc.
    4)Science: Medical and drug testing, military equipment and weapons testing, consumer product testing.
    5)Entertainment: Circuses, zoos, rodeos, sport hunting, etc.

    This movie can be viewed, in its entirety here:

    Earthlings Pt. 1
    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=odee3Jqzf50
    Earthlings Pt. 2
    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2ls6NCEsVVY

  24. n/a
    Posted June 30, 2008 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    “Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals.” George Orwell, Animal Farm

    In the end, this issue should not be about Vegans vs. Non-vegans. Reducing the issue to such simplistic terms polarizes and segregates the two groups while creating extreme antagonists on both sides. It is in the best interest of the government and corporations to distract the minds of the populace from the real issues. This assists them in ensuring that individuals are easily manipulated for the sake of their own agendas. While the world is under government and corporate control, human beings do not protest as much if they are occupied with fighting amongst themselves about the concepts of “right” and “wrong”.

    At the heart of all people is a concerned citizen that cares about their home, the planet, and the world’s animals and people. One’s actions should reflect this compassion. Do not take anyone’s word as gospel. Research all of the issues on your own, and find your personal conclusion only after doing so.

    I was unable to include all points into one post. I’m quite certain that you’ll scoff at what I’ve written here, and that is not my concern. It is not my intention to “convert” you, but it would be quite admirable if you would refrain from posting about things you are ignorant to.

  25. Posted June 30, 2008 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    @Tanya
    The reason why some of your posts were blocked is because Akismet and other blog spam blocking software interprets multiple links within a post as a tell-tale sign of spam. I find it amusing that your comments bear such a resemblance to a processed meat product… don’t you?

    Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.

    That’s why vegans are mostly the “feelers”, and not as much the “thinkers”.

    A balanced diet is the best of any diet. Vegetables provide things that meat and dairy products don’t, and meat and dairy products provide nutrients that vegetables don’t. There exists no better source for muscle-focused amino acids than red meat.

    I have no problem with vegetarians… it’s the vegans that are the nuts (get it?). It’s the socio-politically crazed anti-meat wingnuts that bewilder most sane folks. Vegans seems to want to impose their diets on others… seemingly by doing lots of screaming. The rationale that is so weak it must be screamed by activists at rallies is truly inferior.

    For a better education on animal rights visit: petakillsanimals.com. Here’s just a tasty morsel off the flank of this site:

    Animal “rights” radicals are getting craftier about finding new ways to nudge Americans toward strict vegetarianism. The save-the-cows-and-chickens crowd has never been a stranger to the kinds of fear mongering and guilt tactics that other activists movements have used to gain political influence. But apparently, the shock videos and bogus health claims we’re used to seeing from PETA and other groups are getting a bit old. There’s a new fad sweeping the world of vegan activism, and it goes a little something like this: “Giving up meat is the key to solving [insert worrisome global problem here].”

    Last month it was climate change. Animal activists resorted to everything from phony Letter to the Editor campaigns to public nudity to persuade an unsuspecting public that eating a balanced diet is destroying the planet. And the latest? World hunger. We’re not making this up.

  26. TJ Mock
    Posted July 3, 2008 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Waraxe said it.

  27. n/a
    Posted July 23, 2008 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I want to set the record straight and state that I am a happy and healthy vegan and I am NOT a PETA supporter. I do not respect their practices, nor do I feel that they speak on my behalf. I find it quite sad that those who like to waste their time “discrediting” veganism bring this organization up all the time. Am I just a “PETA”, and not a vegan? Gee, thanks for clearing that up for me. As for your comment about them, I have nothing to say, because frankly, I am not a spokesperson for them, as I just stated. Notice how I never once mentioned PETA? I don’t even know why you started talking about them.

    Unfortunately the world we live in allows for an overabundance of stupidity on the internet. Anyone and their brother can now set up any kind of blog or website they want and spew forth their own ideologies. There is this grand obsession with feeling important because some little voices are crying out with support or denoucing your comments. You are connecting with the world! …Or just the losers that happen upon your website/blog.

    Someone stated that I didn’t present anything to back up my opinions so I gave it to them and yet… still not enough. I gave you specific websites and books to read. Notice how I attempted to include UNBIASED information (Books regarding health by acclaimed doctors, UN Report about factory farming’s environmental effect, Human Rights Watch Report about human rights violations, etc.) No PETA sites were included! It’s unfortunate that none of your ilk ever plan on actually objectively looking at the issue. You are closing up your minds without ANY investigation. That sure sounds like what a “thinker” would do, hey? Again, what are you all so afraid of?

    In any case, you didn’t really add anything to the conversation. Everything that has been stated on this page are opinions unsupported by facts. I gave ample resources for people to utitilize if they wish to break free from their own ignorance and perhaps, hey do their own research? As I said, don’t take my word for it… Don’t take this “WarAxe” person’s word for it.

    You stated that I am a “feeler” because I care. Well so be it. I care about the environment, the world’s people, the world’s animals. All of humankind is capable of caring (I suppose that means you too?) and they should do so freely and proudly. They should not be pushed down in the depths of darkness, by people like yourself just because they want to try their best at being a good person.

    You have presented yourself as much the same as most pompous, right-wing Christians. As I said, I never expected much from you and my responses weren’t even necessarily meant for you or your kind. I only hope to present the fact that your opinion is not necessarily important and that there are other things out there that people should investigate before they take your statements at face value.

    Go on hating vegans, you lovable ol’ Christian you.

  28. n/a
    Posted July 23, 2008 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    For some reason the following was excluded from my indepth post:

    4)For the Environment:
    The meat industry uses half of all the water used, for all purposes, in the USA. To produce 1 pound of meat, 2,500 gallons of water is required, however producing 1 pound of wheat requires merely 25 gallons. In addition, livestock production is responsible for climate change, land degradation, deforestation, pollution of water, and loss of biodiversity, among other things. According to a 2006 UN report, livestock animals generate more carbon emissions than all of the world’s transport (aircraft included) combined. Researchers from the University of Chicago have found that the average meat-eater emits 1.5 tonnes more CO2 per year, than a vegan. Animals produce methane gas, a greenhouse gas. Though rarer than carbon dioxide, methane is far more powerful. A single pound of methane is equivalent to approximated 50 pounds of carbon dioxide. The production of animals for their flesh and secretions is also very energy inefficient, when you consider all of the fossil fuels required throughout production. When consuming plants directly, rather than cycling them through animals, energy is conserved. The amount of food energy per fossil energy expended is 34.5% in ideal conditions, while the least energy efficient of plant production is 328%. You could literally feed 32 vegans, for the amount of resources it takes to feed a meat/dairy eater. Meat eaters have 24 times the environmental impact of a vegan. If you would like to know more, please see the following links:
    http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm
    http://ucsusa.org/food_and_environment/sustainable_food/cafos-uncovered.html
    http://www.alternet.org/story/74605/?page=entire
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-few-more-inconvenient-_b_40261.html
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/vegetarian-is-the-new-pri_b_39014.html
    http://www.alternet.org/environment/89015/

  29. n/a
    Posted July 23, 2008 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    5)For Our Society:
    Hundreds of millions of dollars are given to the US government from agribusinesses; in an effort to ensure that laws meant to protect consumers, animals and the environment do not pass. Because of government negligence, factory farms pollute and destroy local communities, spreading contamination and illness, and distribute inferior products to consumers that contain feces, poisons and diseases. When considering the world as a whole, it is clear that the current situation can be reduced simply to “taking the poor man’s grain to feed the rich man’s cow”. One of the largest contributing factors to starvation in poorer countries is animal production, because land is used to allow for grazing or to produce grain for animals rather than for human consumption. There is enough food in the world to feed us all, but mostly due to animal production, it is inefficiently used and distributed unequally. Animal production is energy inefficient and is also greatly reliant on an abundance of fossil fuels. Current production levels could not be sustained if there was a decline in oil availability. It’s obvious that most wars are fought over resources, fossil fuels in particular. Conserving energy by not eating meat and dairy would greatly reduce the need to conquer other countries for their oil.

  30. n/a
    Posted July 23, 2008 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    -Making a Killing: The Political Economy of Animal Rights by Bob Torres
    -The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World by John Robbins and Dean Ornish M.D.
    -The World Peace Diet: Eating for Spiritual Health and Social Harmony by Will Tuttle, Ph.D.
    -Mad Cowboy: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won’t Eat Meat by Howard F. Lyman
    -Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser

  31. n/a
    Posted July 23, 2008 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2005/07/07/agribusiness_farming_subsidies_destroy_food_security.htm
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/dec/24/christmas.famine
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0826/is_n3_v8/ai_12182736/pg_2?tag=artBody;col1
    http://cultureandanimals.org/animalrights.htm

    I am sincerly sorry for the mess. I would have certainly liked being able to post it all at once in it’s complete form.

  32. Amy
    Posted September 18, 2008 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    I just came across this article on Google.
    I’d just like to remind you all that there are flaws in all your arguments. Everyone thinks that they alone are correct, and arguing about things that are a matter of opinion is pointless. Vegans think they are doing right, and meat eaters think that they are doing right, too.
    It frustrates me though, that the people who are criticising vegans seem to put vegans into a category of their own, as if supporting animal rights automatically makes them leftist pro-choice yuppies or something.
    It’s just a lifestyle choice, and most vegans don’t judge everyone else. It’s what they want to do, so why don’t you let them in peace?

  33. Posted September 18, 2008 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    @Amy
    You are wrong when you say that most vegans don’t judge everyone else. Perhaps most “vegetarians” don’t judge everyone else… but when you make the leap to “vegan” there seems to be an entire sub-culture to it — filled with political action and left-leaning agendas. Don’t think so? Then you haven’t been to many vegan websites… nor spoken with many vegans.

    In fact… you probably skipped over the crazy rant in the comments here regarding the human specism (whatever that’s supposed to mean — I guess it means I think it’s okay to step on ants).

  34. Rachel
    Posted February 7, 2009 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    On a side note I noticed the following in your notes about yourself “Something important you should know about me is that I am a Christ-follower… that is, I attempt in my pathetic-ness to be like Christ.” I really do not find your prejudice against vegans to be very “Christ-like” You may want to rethink your belief system and wheter or not it is working. I don’t think Jesus would be very happy with you.

  35. Posted February 7, 2009 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    I really do not find your prejudice against vegans to be very “Christ-like” You may want to rethink your belief system and wheter or not it is working. I don’t think Jesus would be very happy with you.

    Explain… if you darecan.

  36. Rachel
    Posted February 7, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Is that a threat? Once again, not very Christ-like. I really don’t think Jesus would be bashing peoples beliefs, telling them they are crazy and should kill themselves, or threatening them over the internet. I am not an expert on the Bible, but isn’t pride one of the seven deadly sins? Thinking you are better than an entire group of people definitly falls into that category.

    Maybe you are threatening me because you feel threatened by me?

    “God is stern in dealing with the arrogant, but to the humble He shows kindness.” – Proverbs 3:34

  37. Posted February 7, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    :D No, it’s not a threat… it’s just that most people who toss out judgment from an outsider’s perspective without any line of reasoning to back it up usually are too cowardly to “explain” it. They are scared, so they don’t “dare” open themselves up to the same attacks they level on others. You struck me no differently… and boy, are you silly.

    Of course… your response still lacked any line of reasoning to back up any of your assertions. At this point even eating meat probably won’t help you. :-)

    And with regard to “telling people to kill themselves”… I am telling people that they should be consistent and cogent in their thinking and principles… and radical vegan beliefs are in conflict with their very own existence.

    You should re-read everything I’ve written three times… and meditate on it with a full stomach of bacon-wrapped filet minion… and you’ll be of a better mind to actually address what I’m really saying about who’s a wacko and who is not.

  38. Posted February 7, 2009 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    I was wondering why you started your ranting with “On a side note…” until I saw that there was a LOOoonngg missive pending comment moderation. I will post it here, now… this is really rich:

    I love how you have decided that you know everything about vegans. We are all crazy, radical, nutjobs? Last I checked I hadn’t even met you, but it’s great to know that you have already decided I am crazy. It is people like you who give vegans a bad name. Since you have decided to refer to vegans using the term “them”, you are indeed implying that your comments are fact for all vegans. It seems you need a little education, not on vegan beliefs, as I know it wouldn’t do you any good, but on stereotyping and prejudice, as you obviously are prejudice against me for absolutely no reason.

    A stereotype is a belief or picture of something, held by a group of people, which is oversimplified and made without sufficient evidence or knowledge (i.e. Veganism is “feel-good” behavior driven by a failure to accept the order of things – WarAxe, You are wrong when you say that most vegans don’t judge everyone else – WarAxe, vegans are mostly the “feelers”, and not as much the “thinkers – Waraxe, it’s the vegans that are the nuts – WarAxe).

    A stereotype is often about another group of people with a particular shade of skin, people with particular religious or cultural beliefs (vegan), people in a particular profession, or people from a particular area of the world. Stereotypes lead to prejudice and unnecessary conflict in people’s dealings with others. Prejudice comes from prejudge, to judge before having adequate information (which you are doing, whether you admit it or not). People are prejudiced against other people because it is easier than learning about another culture or getting to know an individual from that group. People are prejudiced against other people because it makes them feel better about themselves if they can say that an entire group of people is not as good as they are.

    I do not feel I need to justify my beliefs to you, as I have not asked you to justify yours to me. I will admit that there are vegans out there who do lean toward the crazy side. However there are also many meat eaters who are mentally unstable. There are crazy people everywhere (black, white, Hispanic, Christian, Atheist, vegan, carnivore, etc.) So to take a couple of instances and judge an entire group based on it is ridiculous. I am an educated person. I have two masters degree’s, and am currently working on my PhD. I will finish it next year and I am twenty-eight years old. I would love to know your education background. I have been a vegetarian since I was nine and a vegan for the past four years. I am very healthy, very happy, and very mentally stable. I am a middle school teacher, so there is a chance you child could end up in my class. I am a good teacher and was recently named teacher of the year in my district. I work with children every day and have not ever tried to push my views on them, although if they ask questions I do speak honestly with them about my beliefs. Their parents are aware of this and are very supportive. While I do not believe in eating meat or using animals for my benefit, I do not hate meat eaters. I believe the term “vegansexual” is silly, although I think people should not be judged for not wanting to have sex with non meat eaters. It is no different from people only dating within their religion, which happens all of the time. People are not ridiculed and treated as though they are freak for that. I am married to a non vegan, non vegetarian, and while I would prefer him to be a vegan (I will not lie here). I can still love him as a non vegan, and we have a very happy and healthy relationship.

    I am not worried about what you think of me personally. I honestly do not care. I find you to be ignorant, prejudice, and uneducated on topic you are discussing. I am putting this out there only to show that you have no basis for what you are saying above. Feel free to respond or not.

  39. samantha
    Posted March 22, 2009 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    WOW can anyone say APATHY!!!?! This article is ignorant. I am a vegetarian going on vegan but I dont put people who eat meat down so whats wrong with me staying away from putting dead animals in my mouth? People always talk sh*t to me about being vegetarian, why are they so defensive? Why do meat eaters talk soooo much crap. If they didnt care about the animals theyre eating like they say they dont, then why are they writing stuff like this? Obviously they care. Its funny to think about…

  40. Bored-guy
    Posted March 27, 2009 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    i love meat. ribs, steak yum :D .

  41. Your Mother
    Posted March 28, 2009 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    Dear Rachel;

    It is so obvious from your post that you don’t have a clue about what Jesus would or would not do. Even a cursory reading of the four gospels (for the Biblically challenged that would be the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) would reveal that Jesus railed against the spiritual and religious leaders of His day challenging them constantly about their beliefs and traditions. He was actually quite the radical — and was definitely a meat eater. One of His sayings was, and I paraphrase, that is is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out” Make your arguments for your vegan choice, but leave your ignorant references to Jesus out of it. And by the way, as War Axe’s mother, I am very proud of his commitment to being a Christ-follower. It is a journey, Rachel, not a destination. I challenge you to read the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, found in the New Testament), and then post again. I’d like to read your comments then.

  42. Posted April 16, 2009 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Both partiies have good very points. Now all You need is a judge to declare the final victor. The Creator,The ONE and only. please visit the following link. :) )

    http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/mcqnm6.htm

  43. Posted April 16, 2009 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Hindu scriptures give permission to have non-vegetarian food

    There are many Hindus who are strictly vegetarian. They think it is against their religion to consume non-vegetarian food. But the true fact is that the Hindu scriptures permit a person to have meat. The scriptures mention Hindu sages and saints consuming non-vegetarian food.

    It is mentioned in Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus, in chapter 5 verse 30

    “The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad, even if he does it day after day, for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater.”

    Again next verse of Manu Smruti, that is, chapter 5 verse 31 says

    “Eating meat is right for the sacrifice, this is traditionally known as a rule of the gods.”

    Further in Manu Smruti chapter 5 verse 39 and 40 says

    “God himself created sacrificial animals for sacrifice, …., therefore killing in a sacrifice is not killing.”

    Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88 narrates the discussion between Dharmaraj Yudhishthira and Pitamah Bhishma about what food one should offer to Pitris (ancestors) during the Shraddha (ceremony of dead) to keep them satisfied. Paragraph reads as follows:

    “Yudhishthira said, “O thou of great puissance, tell me what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitiris (dead ancestors), become inexhaustible! What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?”

    “Bhishma said, “Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barely and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddhas, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the mutton they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remaingratified for eight months, and with that obtained from the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months, With the meat of the bufffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said , lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.

    So but natural if you want to keep your ancestors satisfied forever, you should serve them the meat of red goat.

  44. Dave
    Posted April 29, 2009 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    @ Your Mother… And everyone else for that matter.

    Being a Vegan myself and having done many years of research on the origins of human evolution (Oops, did I say that word?), and it’s my conclusion, and the conclusion of many others that humans only became omnivores out of necessity and not out of instinct.

    As for the bible dictating wether or not we should be meat eaters, at the time PEOPLE wrote it, it was generally accepted in society to eat meat and drink milk in many parts of the world. The human race is hundreds of thousands if not millions of years old, and it’s only been in the last ten thousand years that people have decided to use animals for their meats and byproducts.

    Also, ponder this. In nature, animals hunt their prey and eat them while they are still warm. Humans raise them from birth, pump them full of hormones (optional), feed them hundreds of pounds of grains, rob them of their byproducts and then kill them so we can freeze them, then cut them into different cuts and take them home to cook them and put tasty spices on them…

    Any nutrient you can find in meat and milk you can most certainly find in vegetables. Contrary to popular belief that includes protien and vitamin b12.

    People who say that vegans don’t care about the animals killed in harvesting are wrong. If you are on a bus that hits a person, that’s one thing. But if you are a prison guard that raises and slaughters it’s prisoners, that’s another.

    All of our humanly systems are even geared towards that of a herbovore. It’s unfortunate that the meat and milk companies back the US politicians with millions of dollars to say “Milk is calcium, meat is protien,” because it’s simply un-natural and untrue…

    Did you know? If we eliminated the meat industry, it would save us more Co2 than if we completley modernized all our forms of transportation?

  45. Posted April 30, 2009 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    @Dave

    …humans only became omnivores out of necessity and not out of instinct.

    Umm… according to natural selection survival is instinctual and necessities are needed to survive. How many “years of research” could you have possibly done?

    The human race is hundreds of thousands if not millions of years old

    Don’t think so. Humans are homo sapiens sapiens… not homo erectus or any of the others. Homo sapiens sapiens haven’t been around very long… as evidenced by the fossil record.

    Any nutrient you can find in meat and milk you can most certainly find in vegetables.

    A half-truth (among many). Nobody can get sufficient quantities and varieties of protein purely through the consumption of raw vegetables. You would actually fill up on the raw veggies much fater than you could intake protein.

    However, you could PROCESS the vegetables. I know how much you self-identified healthy types LOVE your processed foods. So to get enough protein you’d have to buy some super-un-naturally-processed-soy-whey-whatever at the fake natural foods store. Oh, and no vegetable gives as much of the blend of muscle-building amino acids as does a little red meat.

    Did you know? If we eliminated the meat industry, it would save us more Co2 than if we completley modernized all our forms of transportation?

    …which tells me that driving less and buying smaller, hybrid vehicles is pointlessly trivial with regard to global warming. Although, I had a feeling anyway. :-)

  46. kyle
    Posted May 1, 2009 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Your approach to criticising veganism is very faulty and common of someone who doesn’t quite understand the philosophy in itself. If you criticise veganism with a “utopian paradigm” of course you come up with the startling conclusion that veganism is not in fact a perfect solution to the problems of the world. Veganism and animal rights seeks to greatly reduce animal explotation, bodily, and worldy harm of living beings.

    every1 has an oppinion, you should just stop critisizing someone else’s critizism. it just shows that you dont care for them yourselves otherwise you would defend them not your own reputaion.(ppl put others down before the stand up for what they belive in)

  47. Zack Haynie
    Posted May 7, 2009 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    @ Everyone criticizing the people arguing over this matter… don’t. Haha, this debate was EXTREMELY fun to read. Im not going to share my opinion purely because I don’t feel like having to add much more than this comment. Continue…

  48. HHC
    Posted May 15, 2009 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    I’m just interested why WarAxe did not respond to “n/a”‘s post? Not even a little bit. Is it because all of n/a’s sources come from non-biased parties? Is it because it kind of all makes sense, and there’s nothing WarAxe can really say to disprove it?
    Honestly, n/a provided a whole slurry of information, from non-biased sources, for WarAxe, and anyone else out there judging people without reading all the information that is available to them. n/a makes the best point of all when he/she says: “GO OUT AND READ AND INFORM YOURSELF AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS.”
    Despite it’s messiness, n/a’s post(s) never ever become preachy. Never once was there mention of PETA, animal-rights, death to meat-eaters, etc. Never once was he/she condescending to the fact that you eat meat. Yes, there were condescending comments regarding your ignorance and judgement, but who out there loves ignorance? Anyway, there was absolutely no confrontational tone with n/a’s posts, and because of that, there was no response from WarAxe. This guy seems to only want to respond to anger and disbelief from the vegan community, which is terrible. That leaves no room for discussion, only angry arguments, so let’s not waste any more time fueling his fire.
    Information and knowledge is available to everyone nowadays. I am just confused at why anyone would choose to be ignofant when starting an open discussion. Facts should be known from both sides. Like n/a said, everyone should make their own decisions, but if you choose to not read information from BOTH parties before doing so, you are ignorance realized.

  49. atomicactivist
    Posted July 4, 2009 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    wow, another advocate of animal cruelty who hasn’t done is research.
    please spare us your ignorance.
    we simply speak out for those without a voice.

    i’m sure a lot of what we are trying to convey is beyond your understanding (you seem to be quite obtuse) but being belligerent about your ignorance doesn’t make you look ‘cool’ or ‘intelligent’. it makes you look like a moron.

    -a.
    “UNTIL EVERY CAGE IS EMPTY”

  50. Posted July 4, 2009 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    @atomicactivist
    Thanks for the birthday laugh… although it looked like you had to stretch a little bit to put today’s vocab word du jour in there. And I look less moronic than some when I use proper grammar, spelling, and capitalization.

    You can stop reading now – but for anyone’s else’s benefit I’m actually very much AGAINST animal cruelty. In many respects I put people who abuse higher order animals (dogs, cats, etc.) in line with those who abuse women, the disabled, the elderly, and the young (and unborn).

  51. simple
    Posted July 5, 2009 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    I wonder…….

    If so many people drop vegans into the leftist party, then why are they not waiting for evolution to kick in? I mean if we as humans are abusing our nature why hasn’t nature abused us back?

    And for the Christian Vegans….(that was perplexing to type) God created all things. Adam and Eve were immortal, the animal kingdom was not created as such. So very clearly they are not on the same value system. So stop using that argument.

    Animal cruelty is horrific. Killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful is not.

  52. jack
    Posted July 11, 2009 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    simple.

    killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful IS animal cruelty. The ends do not justify the means. An animal killed to make a jacket and a steak still feels the same pain as an animal killed for and thrown in a ditch.

  53. simple
    Posted July 12, 2009 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    @ Jack
    I said

    “Animal cruelty is horrific. Killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful is not.”

    I did not imply that it is or is not animal cruelty to kill an animal for nourishment. I said it is not horrific. Killing an animal and throwing it in a ditch for the no reason is pretty sick and twisted. But when it comes to food there is this thing called the FOOD CHAIN.. or the circle of life. These are very simple ideologies that create meat eaters everyday.

    Please enjoy your serving of vegetables and I will enjoy mine with a piece of meat next to them. And I will thank my authority for providing me the meal.

  54. jack
    Posted July 13, 2009 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    @simple
    no, you did not imply that killing an animal for nourishment was animal cruelty. I did, and it is.

    How can you say that killing an animal and throwing it in a ditch is “sick and twisted” but killing one and eating it is great.

    the circle of life? you’ve been watching too much Lion King my friend. You should be more worried about the circle of arteriosclerosis, because it’s gonna come back and bit you in your arteries.

  55. jack
    Posted July 13, 2009 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    also. Jesus didn’t actually exist so lets just leave him out of it.

  56. Posted July 13, 2009 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    @jack
    You bring poor arguments to the table (pardon the pun). Perhaps a lack of red meat has dulled your logic? You fail to recognize any difference between killing a food animal “quickly”, and torturing it to death. Since I think this a very obvious distinction I’m not sure what point there would be trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. No offense.

  57. jack
    Posted July 13, 2009 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    i don’t believe i ever used the word torture. i said;

    “An animal killed to make a jacket and a steak still feels the same pain as an animal killed for [nothing] and thrown in a ditch.”

    I see no distinction between killing an animal for food and killing an animal for nor reason, in terms of the suffering caused. In fact i think killing an animal for food IS killing an animal for no reason since it is wholly unnecessary.

  58. jack
    Posted July 13, 2009 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    So many people have posted great arguments to your viewpoint but time and time again you refuse to acknowledge them.

    The fact is, eating animals causes suffering. I don’t know any one who would disagree with that statement. If you are happy accepting the fact that you cause suffering by eating animals then that is your decision to make, no one elses.

    Also, i see you believe in god. As i think there is a very obvious distinction between reality and fairy tales which you have failed to identify, you are correct in saying that there would be no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation.

  59. simple
    Posted July 13, 2009 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    Believing in a higher power is faith, believing that we just happened to crawl out of primordial soup is pathetic.

    On the alternate side of that spectrum I can certainly respect the scientific approach in that there is very little HARD evidence other than evolution. What baffles me is that evolutionists can not prove the BEGINNING themselves. They can show connections through time but never a starting point it is all theories with which they have FAITH in.

    Now that everybody across the board has been oversimplified down to FAITH for Jacks benefit of an intelligent conversation.

    @Jack

    I recently moved from Colorado, just before I did there was a lot of talk about the Rocky Mountain National Park. There was an obscene Elk population there. They had been protected for a number of years and because of that disease had begun to infiltrate the herds.
    You bet your a%$ hunters across the mid-west started foaming at the mouth. What I am about to say came from a radio show in Denver, I have no substantial proof of this plan; According to *some government agency* the best route of action was to quarantine a safe number of animals to be killed with the carcasses burned in a ditch. I just looked up an article and found that they used qualified sharp shooters.

    My point in this is we are a higher form of species. We have the tools and ability to kill animals for food. So in principal we should be carnivores. Now I can certainly take the other side and see that stuffing chickens in cages and mistreating any animal for the purpose of profit is wrong. And every person of any belief should fight to eliminate cruelty to animals.

    You said that “eating animals causes suffering” and I must disagree with you. Many other factors cause suffering i.e.; greed, over-population, under-population, ignorance, hate. Eating meat is a natural process, the same as eating vegetables. We need a healthy balance of all to survive.

    Too much of anything is a hazard to your health. To much soy causes unhealthy levels of estrogen in the body… to much meat clogs arteries blah blah e.t.c…..

    “While many people feel that these arguments are hard to dispute, others claim that such research is bogus or inaccurate. And then there are those who confirm the validity of these environmental statistics, but deem such facts to be insignificant – how could not eating dairy and eggs save our planet?”

    http://www.starchefs.com/features/food_debates/html/issue_01.shtml

    Jack you make a great point; it all comes down to choice. And I choose to have a balanced diet, with little over indulgence. So here is to my healthy dose of B12 and here’s to your wheat grass. ~~~Cheers~~~

  60. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I just ate the rarest steak in the world.. and boy was it good!;)

  61. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    I would like to say one serious thing. I like how the people like jack and rachel bring up WarAxe’s beliefs. Are you guys really that dumb, that you have to target something so “trivial” to you?

  62. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel have to target WarAxes beliefs. I mean are you that dumb that you can’t come up with a valid point so you target something that’s apparently “trivial” to you?

  63. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel target WarAxes beliefs.. Are you guys really that dumb that you can’t stick to the topic about why vegans are retarded, but instead talk of something that’s “trivial” to you? Sounds like your missing some much needed nutrients from good ‘ole meet;)

  64. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel target WarAxes beliefs.. Are you guys really that dumb that you can’t stick to the topic about why vegans are retarded, but instead talk of something that’s “trivial” to you? Sounds like your missing some much needed nutrients from good ‘ole meat;)

  65. Clint Harris
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    ok so sorry about the multiple post, it wasn’t posting.. whoops!! look like I also need more meat…. :D sorry.. I kept forgetting what I said to which is why they all vary.. haha woOt for meat!

  66. Posted July 14, 2009 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    @jack

    The fact is, eating animals causes suffering. I don’t know any one who would disagree with that statement.

    I believe you… I believe that you are sufficiently cloistered inside your own world as to not know “any one” who’d disagree that eating animals causes suffering. You are typical… all emotion and no common sense. Really.

  67. jack
    Posted July 14, 2009 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    @simple, i dont eat strange foods like wheatgrass. and my B12 levels are perfectly fine, because i am Australian and eat vegemite.

    @waraxe, are you telling me that you believe you can eat animals without causing them to suffer? I would like to know how, because this is the only objection I have to eating animals, and meat tastes good.

  68. T.J. Mock
    Posted July 15, 2009 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Death does not equal suffering.

  69. Posted July 16, 2009 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    @T.J. Mock
    I blocked jack’s latest response… but he basically said “who mentioned death?”, and then called us all idiots. :-)

    He said before “The fact is, eating animals causes suffering.”

    Then you said “Death does not equal suffering.”

    Then he just says “who mentioned death?”. Apparently his puny little meat-starved brain couldn’t figure out that animals are dead when humans eat them. Maybe he got confused with the suffering gazelles being eaten alive on those nature shows. :-)

  70. T.J. Mock
    Posted July 16, 2009 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    i guess.

    Maybe he can muster a coherent response that we can tear apart later.

  71. simple
    Posted July 16, 2009 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    i like my steak still moo-ing… so yeah they suffer to get in my mouth.. ha

  72. Posted August 16, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I completely agree I love meat and as long as the animal has been raised and killed in a humane way then I have no problem with what is just the food chain. Plus have you ever seen anything but a skinny vegan? I don’t think it’s a healthy diet I know lots of vegetarians who are always sick because they don’t seem to get the right nutrients they need.

  73. Buddy Henzig
    Posted August 27, 2009 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Raising a cow needs water and grains, which would feed 20 people. Grains is only that much, and water is even less available in the world. So by throwing on the BBQ yummy, still warm and twitching animals, who apparently enjoy being hacked alive for your pleasure, (I bet I know where your neighborhood cats are) you are actually keeping people starving hungry, and killing them. Who cares, right?
    Being at the top of the food chain means eating weaker, poorer people in far away countries, too, these days. Now, there’s a good Christian.

  74. Posted August 27, 2009 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    @Buddy Henzig
    You’re a real winner. Cows eat grasses and grain that aren’t intended for human consumption. Farms produce food… not consume it… otherwise they wouldn’t be farms and they wouldn’t make a profit. Your logic is killing the poor people… how about that?

  75. Ururu
    Posted August 30, 2009 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    SO,you M.Es think animal cruelty is wrong huh?
    You think that it is wrong to kill a sweet,cute,cuddly,innocent little puppy or kitten or bunny,but when it comes to ugly,stupid, filthy farm animals…….

    Who cares that 30 chickens are crammed into a cage barely big enough for 10 and sit there their entire 6 month long lives,sitting in their own crap,unable to stand up or stretch their wings?

    Who cares that a sow has to live her entire 5 year long life in a cage that is only as wide and long as her own body.That she eats slop that also has used syringes and plastic bags in it.That her joints weaken so that eventually she can no longer stand and has to lie down in her own crap and urine just feeding piglets until she dies from starvation,exhaustion and/or disease?

    Who cares that for every one Deer that is killed by a hunter,20 more have been wounded and left to die a slow,painful death?

    Who cares that a cow is forced to get pregnant over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again without rest until she dies,just like the sows,so you can have your milk (Yes,kiddies,a cows does NOT just magically have milk,it has to be pregnant to keep the supply going).

    Please correct me if I am wrong in thinking that the above is an accurate example of how M.Es see things.

  76. Ururu
    Posted August 30, 2009 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    I mean,honestly,HOW can you say that you are against animal cruelty?

    You all keep saying how we hate meat eaters.We do NOT.We hate what these animals have to go through.

  77. Ururu
    Posted August 30, 2009 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    PS I am NOT Vegan.I am Fruitarian.

  78. Posted September 27, 2009 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    This is a pretty intense debate and I would like to contribute my 5 cents. I have recently turned to vegetarianism and with all the information available today, it seems to be a pretty easy shift. There are many vitamin/mineral dense and high calorie vegetarian foods one can indulge that give you a feeling of satiety like coconuts, dates, cashew, peanuts, mangoes, moringa pods, sesame, chick peas, lentils, beans to name a few. Add to this some salads and some grain dish like rice or wheat should make for a wholesome vegetarian fare.

    However, I am not a true vegan because I consume ghee which is prepared from raw butter. But this is my only concession to animal foods. I do not feel the need for anything else.

    After about 6 months into this diet I have observed that:

    My hunger is much reduced. I never get the gnawing hunger that I used to get on meat diet. I can space my meals and eat at any convenient time.

    Strength is improved. The same exercises I performed on my previous diet like skipping, sit-ups, pull-ups, chin-ups, long walks, pumping iron, can be done with much ease and not getting very tired.

    Another thing I should mention is that before we enter the meat versus veg diet we should consider the food versus non-food diet. I say this because the greatest benefit to my health was cutting out of non-foods like refined/hydrogenated vegetable oils, processed salt, refined flour, white sugar, colas, and junk foods. I only use sea salt and coconut oil/ghee for cooking.

  79. simple
    Posted September 27, 2009 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    If you choose to no longer eat meat and you live longer than other meat-eaters congrats! This article is based on vegansexuals and the idea that vegans are cutting themselves off from others due to their beliefs. If you do not want to cause harm or any other intrusion on the “animal kingdom” than kill yourself, you will do us and the animal kingdom a huge favor..

    For the rest of the sane population (even those who are not meat eaters) keep up the good work… maybe in 5,000 years it will be very evident which is the preferred method of diet.

  80. simple
    Posted September 27, 2009 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    oh and @Ururu

    It is very illegal to feed swine refuse and garbage in this country. If you find a farm that, oh wait how did you put it; “sow has to live her entire 5 year long life in a cage that is only as wide and long as her own body.That she eats slop that also has used syringes and plastic bags in it.”

    If you find that farm you should sue… you will win a lot of money and you can support your crazy belief systems.

  81. Posted September 29, 2009 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Simple

    I agree that this concept of vegansexual exclusivity is a bit extreme. But as far as vegetarianism goes, you should try it!! I was a meatarian just like you and let me tell you, I know my pork. We used to get the best cut of wild boar and a desi breed of pig that will make your farmed pork tasteless in comparison.

    Anyway, I have stepped out of my comfort zone and that is why I can say what I said in my earlier post.

    All I am saying is that if you too decide to step out of your comfort zone and give this vegetarianism thing a try, eat wholesome foods and NOT vegeburgers and soya this and that. Have lot of whole fruit, leafy salads, nuts, seeds, whole grain cereal. Avoid refined oils and cook with coconut oil or butter as these are more heat tolerant than unsaturated oils.

  82. T.J. Mock
    Posted October 4, 2009 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    i’m gonna stick to my balanced diet. meat, vegetable, diary, and fruits included.

  83. simple
    Posted October 9, 2009 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    Kieran

    I eat tons of fruit… I am actually addicted to blending.. I mix different natural fruits to concoct new flavors.. I also eat greens on a regular basis… A snack for me is an avocado, raw and natural (you get 5 for a dollar out of season in my town).. I just also enjoy meat. I believe in this world my consumption of an animal is very far down on the list of other perverse and unnatural things I could be doing.

    Someday when I have the motivation I may decide to switch, I cannot imagine why!? But hey, I am open to the possibility of it.

  84. Monkey
    Posted November 6, 2009 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND IGNORANT! If you actually did some research for yourself, you might find that vegan is the healthiest diet to follow… I dont give a crap what you eat, and i dont judge you for it at all, but when you start yapping and judging vegans then of course we get defensive. You complete udder morons! Do some research for yourself instead of sitting on your lazy fat ass and just believing everything you hear! dirtbags,

  85. Posted November 8, 2009 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    @Monkey
    Your lack of iron and other nutrients has severely hampered your mood, your reasoning and your vocabulary (and your punctuation and spelling and grammar). I recommend a 12 oz filet wrapped in bacon… medium rare, of course. Do this every day for a month (okay… it doesn’t have to be “filet” every day, that would get expensive) and then return here. I guarantee you’ll be a new little monkey.

  86. SeventhDay Adventist
    Posted November 9, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Like wow..many seventh day adventist are vegetarian and probably like a few vegans thrown in…I am a seventh day adventist that eat meat but i follow the bible and dont eat the meat that are forbidden..Like pork, lobster and scavengers…so no bacon wrapped filet mignon for me..though i can eat filet mignon..The fact that you call your self a christ follower is laughable…i mean if you READ your bible..The people didnt start eating meat till they started to sin..and when they started to eat unclean meat..GOD providen the right meats to eat…

  87. OilCountryGirl
    Posted November 16, 2009 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Only because I enjoyed this whole conversation. Personally I’m not a big meat eater but have been told (Doctor’s order’s) that I need more red meat in my diet; Therefore, I have to eat meat. A person’s religious belief’s shouldn’t even have been brought up in this topic, that’s just people searching for an argument without actually having anything intelligent to argue about. You want to be a ‘vegan’ that’s fine, but leave all the ‘animal cruelty’ stuff out of it. Where I’m from it’s more expensive to be a vegan and I’m not about to go broke to save a few cows.

    @waraxe- Not all of us Canadian girl’s are as you perceive. Most of us Albertans like our Grade A Alberta Beef!

  88. Posted November 17, 2009 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    @OilCountryGirl – That’s great to hear! :-) Where’s the best place to get hold of some good Alberta beef?

  89. OilCountryGirl
    Posted November 18, 2009 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    @WarAxe – Probably from someone involved in 4H, since they usually have the best raised beef (oohh, this should set some people off!) otherwise I find IGA/Sobey’s to have the best quality.

  90. Jody
    Posted December 29, 2009 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    hahahahahahahaha… This is about the dumbest thing I’ve read. …Ever.

    I’m vegan and I’ve never heard of “vegansexuals” thus they don’t represent most vegans, and most certainly not me.

    There is nothing wrong with me. Thus, there is nothing wrong with vegans. To successfully argue that there is something wrong with all vegans, as in your question, “…what the heck is wrong with vegans,” you’ll have to prove some quality exists amongst all vegans which is, by some reasonable logic, “wrong.” I’m perfectly fine and healthy, yada, yada, yada. Ergo, this article bites it. …Big time.

    And, for the record, there isn’t a darn thing “natural” about domestication, captivity, needless cruelty, injected antibiotics and hormones, factory farming, and on and on. You can’t use both the “it’s natural to eat meat argument” and refer to the-crimes-against-nature-that-are domesticated animals. It’s faulty logic.

    Hey, that’s my two (vegan) cents…for what it’s worth.

  91. Mariana
    Posted February 18, 2010 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Do you all really have that much free-time in your hands to be ranting,b i t c hing, and complaining about vegans? Really?
    Obviously, you all feel so threatened by them. So insecure about yourselves, you wish you had as much will-power as a vegan. Let’s be honest now.

    And don’t include god or whatever into this, he’s a mythological creature anyways..

  92. bowzer
    Posted February 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    i am a not a vegan nor a vegetarian, i like meat a lot and im not all that consciencious of where it comes from. i do however enjoy reason, logic and linguistics and yours, waraxe, are inferior. firstly, clint harris, it’s ol’ not ‘ole. the apostrophe replaces words that have been left out.
    i read through the conversation between waraxe and n/a and and firstly i applaud n/a on the depth of research. waraxe, you seem to have based everything you have said on very general, opinion-based speculations, as well as taking very trivial faults of n/a and blowing them up to seem important. for example, n/a provided many reference sites to back up their opinion, you made fun of this in order to somehow devalidify the arguments themselves. “Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.” this is all the space you devoted to addressing what n/a wrote. this is not specific, it has no examples, and it has no logic behind it. these, sir, are accusations. opinion based accusations. this is an open forum for argument, not a trial, so please argue.
    i would like to thank amy for addressing your profiling of vegans in general. take another group of people that can be easily labeled, how about “white christian males above the age of 35″. that’s you. do you think that every single man in that group is exactly what you are? i am a white christian male below 35 (the age is trivial so dont argue that), and i am a liberal. i dont know much about you in person so that’s a bit difficult to argue. but back to the point of your general profiling. the vegans that would create websites or speak out about their beliefs are most likely on the more radical side of veganity, while there are many vegans who lead normal, everyday lives without meat.
    now to your original argument. your main point against vegans is that humans are “the antithesis of environmentally friendly” and therefore it is ok for us to ravage our environments. if this argument were used against your mother (your actual mother, not the poster) i am willing to bet she would respond similarly to “if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you?” your line of thinking is backwards at best. it has been shown through many publications and scientific forays that we are destroying the world in which we live. and without a world, there is no us. this fact is now even being taught in many high schools. i would love to go on, but i am busy and have procrastinated my work long enough(dont argue that either, its pointless).
    farewell

  93. bowzer
    Posted February 21, 2010 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    i am not a vegan nor a vegetarian, i like meat a lot and im not all that consciencious of where it comes from. i do however enjoy reason, logic and linguistics and yours, waraxe, are inferior. firstly, clint harris, it’s ol’ not ‘ole. the apostrophe replaces letters that have been left out.(dont try the superiority angle, its just too obvious of a character assault).
    i read through the conversation between waraxe and n/a and and firstly i applaud n/a on the depth of research. waraxe, you seem to have based everything you have said on very general, opinion-based speculations, as well as taking very trivial faults of n/a and blowing them up to seem important. for example, n/a provided many reference sites to back up their opinion, you made fun of this in order to somehow devalidify the arguments themselves. “Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.” this is all the space you devoted to addressing what n/a wrote. this is not specific, it has no examples, and it has no logic behind it. these, sir, are accusations. opinion based accusations. this is an open forum for argument, not a trial, so please argue.
    i would like to thank amy for addressing your profiling of vegans in general. take another group of people that can be easily labeled, how about “white christian males above the age of 35″. that’s you. do you think that every single man in that group is exactly what you are? i am a white christian male below 35 (the age is trivial so dont argue that), and i am a liberal. i dont know much about you in person so that’s a bit difficult to argue. but back to the point of your general profiling. the vegans that would create websites or speak out about their beliefs are most likely on the more radical side of veganity, while there are many vegans who lead normal, everyday lives without meat.
    now to your original argument. your main point against vegans is that humans are “the antithesis of environmentally friendly” and therefore it is ok for us to ravage our environments. if this argument were used against your mother (your actual mother, not the poster) i am willing to bet she would respond similarly to “if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you?” your line of thinking is backwards at best. it has been shown through many publications and scientific forays that we are destroying the world in which we live. and without a world, there is no us. this fact is now even being taught in many high schools. i would love to go on, but i am busy and have procrastinated my work long enough. this is my real email. try it. and if you erase this again, i will keep posting it.

  94. bowzer
    Posted February 22, 2010 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    i would also like to point out that you started this article to criticize the beliefs of a large group of people, and judging by your responses it seems that you expected to recieve no backlash. i do not think the vegans are right and i do not think you are right. i think each person should live the way they would like without being criticized by conservatives. each time someone reacts with anger to your post you pass them off with patronizing satire and i must say, in the simplest terms: DUDE, THAT SHIT’S WEAK. by the way, Jody tore your ass up. maybe you shouldnt criticize people based on loose hearsay. ya think?

  95. Go Meat
    Posted March 5, 2010 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    I do not hate vegans or vegetarians. However I am tired of Vegans bashing the way I eat. You get so upset if we are to say anything about the way we eat, but you have to preach to us about the way we eat. It’s as bad as atheists, and their constant crusade to be prejudice against Christianity. Unfortunately all the people I know who are vegan are also atheist. They sit there preaching their vegan religion while saying they have no religion.

  96. Reader
    Posted March 19, 2010 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    An excellent subject, War Axe.

    I see many such VEG arguments on YouTube, regularly.

    Reading through 9/10ths of the posts here; and saw no mention of the Eskimo diet that consists entirely of raw meat and fat. And yet, they are perfectly healthy.

    I liken VEG’s to Atheists, Gay-Rights advocats and the ilk.
    They are militantly agressive, and seek to have the government implement new laws to FORCE their BELIEFS [neo-religious cults] upon those that reflect traditions of untold millennium. Traditions to which we owe our very existence.
    Omnivores, on the other hand; wish VEG’s all the best.

    Last words:
    Fishers, hunters and SMALL FARM owners are some of the most humane and nature-conscious people I know, and ever met. It is only in todays mechanized society, that VEG-ism could even be contemplated. And don’t forget the Great Potato Famine and natural disasters such as drought…

    As you may notice: I eat vegetarians, for dinner :)

  97. Tabitha Visco
    Posted April 12, 2010 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    What is wrong with you, heartless people? I am deaf. I became Vegan last year. I am 40. Vegan truly ROCKS. I admit I laughed at a vegan kid when I was young until I realize more and more everyday. Humans and animals have feelings, smell, breathe and see things. Plants dont feel any pain. God brings animals to us for companions. I SUPPORT VEGAN. I applaud for this teachers note. INGORE SICK PEOPLE WHO ARE GREEDY FOR MEAT and Leathers and all that.
    Animals have feelings. They mourn their dead. Dont you have a heart? Jesus does. After he rose, he commands us to love!
    Vegans are stable. Meat eaters are leading to diseases. Vegans, Let those heartless people see their light. They are sick humans. Period. Animals deserve respect. There are many strong organizations. Dont worry, Vegan people!
    I HATE THOSE MEAN COMMENTS FROM INGORANT PEOPLE. SAD!

  98. Lynne
    Posted April 13, 2010 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Oh my… I stumbled upon this while doing research for an english paper about the modern day vegan. Yes, I myself am vegan, and I actually found these comments really interesting to read. I can see some of the points being made, but I do find it insulting that most people on here are grouping all vegans into “crazy, oblivious, obnoxious” categories. I’ve never been referred to as one of “the vegans”… and that’s kinda wierd to me. Sure, I’m only a teenager and I’ve only been vegan for about a year, but I personally do not care what other people eat, I just don’t want to take part in factory farming, so I don’t eat any meat or dairy products. My family owns chickens and we sell the eggs and I don’t feel bad about it because the chickens are treated well and live happily. I just think it’s terrible how humans are the only species that kills out of choice rather than for our primary food sources or protection.
    It wasn’t until this website was found that I had really good evidence to say that modern day vegans are being discriminated against for my paper. Muahaha.

  99. OilCountryGirl
    Posted April 13, 2010 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Wow, I love how people continue to use God, Jesus… the bible when trying to support Vegan.

    “Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it.”" (Luke 22:7-8)

    Christians are not forbidden to eat meat. Any meat may be eaten except for blood and strangled animals (because the blood remains in the meat). Peter was commanded by God to kill and eat the animals God presented before him (Acts 10:9-16). Paul instructed Christians to eat anything sold in the meat market without question (I Corinthians 10:25-26). In fact, the forbidding of eating certain foods is an indication of people departing from the Christian faith.

    “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.” (I Timothy 4:1-5)

    So bring it on… What do you have to say for yourself now??

    Leave God, Jesus and the bible out of it, as quite technically you are betraying your faith.

  100. Lynne
    Posted April 13, 2010 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    also, is it really necesary to say that vegans should go kill themselves? that just made me sad.. and whoever said “i’m tired of vegans bashing the way i eat” should really consider what they’re saying..becuase they are bashing the way vegans eat. this is just mean, and i’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t care if this is mean and irrational, but really, isn’t there a limit?

  101. Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)
    Posted April 24, 2010 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    You’re all retarded… I’m not vegan, but I won’t be bombing their beliefs either. In fact I support BOTH sides of this arguement. You are ALL wrong on multiple counts. Both sides of this arguement are ignorant at BEST… Being vegan is a life choice. One may choose that they want to eat only fruits/veggies. One may decide their favorite color is blue. It’s a life choice. Nothing more, nothing less. Vegans don’t eat meat because they believe in the feelings and emotions of every living thing. Good for them. Nothing against it AT ALL. Vegans tend to be really good people. THEN, they start bashing meat eaters because they “aren’t right.” I draw a line there. That makes you just as bad, stooping to their level. Stand and be proud. I applaud you if you do that, but don’t be an arrogant asshole about it.

    BUT… Vegans also have to take a gander at the big picture from a more logical point of view… MOST animals reproduce A LOT faster than we humans do. We don’t eat them, we become a minority species. That isn’t the big deal… Until they start over-running cities and causing accidents. (Ever seen what can happen when a cow gets nailed by a train and it derails? I have…) It would be more of a hassle on society to let them live than to kill and eat them, if only to keep their numbers in control for the better of the planet. They get too numerous and they eat EVERYTHING and whole areas die out (Seen this while raisin cattle myself). PLUS, if we don’t eat them… Face it, something else will. We’re not the only predatory animals on this planet. They’re going to die one way or another. Personally, vegans, be happy it is quick and painless with us. A bullet to the brain. They get eaten by a bear, coyote, mountain lion, ect… They get the throat torn out and they slowly bleed to death and fade from this world in immaculate pain.

    One the vegans side though. It is the altuism of it that makes vegans strong. willing to sacrifice a way of life to save a life. Seriously deep. I applaud you, but stop telling everyone they are heathens simply because they enjoy ribs… Veganism started to help the world (look up the history). Help other species survive. I think there is nothing better than that. Awesome job and good for all fo you.

    Both sides of this arguement are flawed. Nobody is better or worse than the other and the fact you are tearing eachother apart over such a trivial issue only strengthens and proves my point further.

    Be more world conscious. Everyone is going to be what they want regardless and we’l never survive if we don’t learn to be tolerant. GROW UP!

  102. ANNA
    Posted June 7, 2010 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    @Waraxe All I have to say is that you are very ignorant. You might be laughing with others making fun of vegans but your arguments really do suck and are so flawed. You’re too stuck with what YOU THINK to even pay attention. I’m not criticizing all meat-eaters because not all of them are like you. You don’t really know much about nutrition either with your little comments. But its funny how you actually think you make good points. Have a nice day.

  103. Nick Kuiper
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    You’re right, humans do adversely affect our surrounding environment. But does that mean we should do as much damage as we can?

    This completely misses the point of veganism as a lifestyle, not a dietary choice. Vegans ARE vegan because they oppose inflicting unnecessary suffering on animals. I don’t have to slit a pig’s throat (or pay someone else to) in order to eat dinner, so I don’t.

    I think this piece is just focused more on the environmental aspect of veganism, which is really just an added bonus.

  104. Emma
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    *facepalm* I don’t know how you could possibly be so delusional about veganism. You said that there is something wrong with me, so I get to call you delusional. Sure, us humans are destroying the world, but does that mean that we should completely give it up as a lost cause? It’s called using florescent lightbulbs! Small things like that can add up and amount to a lot if a good amount of people pitch in. And I don’t think that you have any idea of what the meat industry is like, hence this comment: “Each living vegan is negatively impacting the plant and animal kingdom.” FYI: More plants are used to feed animals that are being raised for meat than are actually eaten. I advise that you watch this video and see what the meat industry is really all about. I read your article with an open mind and thought about your points, so please do the same with this: http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp And in response to your last comment: If I’m not meant to eat you, then why are you made out of MEAT?

  105. Emma
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    I think Tanya pwned you pretty well back there.

  106. the truth
    Posted June 20, 2010 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    I have met many vegans and have to say that when they start to talk about how good the lifestyle is I have to walk away.
    I leave to avoid laughing because I have studied the vegan lifestyle and know it is wrong in every possible way.

  107. the truth
    Posted June 20, 2010 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    Also I needed to note that God really does hate vegans.
    After you are sent to hell for being such a smug douch bag (vegan) the menu will be meat, meat, and more meat.
    Bon appetit vegans!

  108. the truth
    Posted June 21, 2010 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    Just wanted to clarify why God hates vegans so much:

    1. A smug attitude that makes them love the smell of their own farts.
    2. Terrible body odors that result in tearing of the eyes and running of the nose.
    3. Caring more about the life of animals than human beings.
    4. Ignoring common sense whenever possible.
    5. Being the biggest douch bags ever!

  109. the truth
    Posted June 21, 2010 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    Just wanted to clarify why God hates vegans so much:

    1. A smug attitude that makes them love the smell of their own farts.
    2. Terrible body odors that result in tearing of the eyes and running of the nose.
    3. Caring more about the life of animals than human beings.
    4. Ignoring common sense whenever possible.

  110. Lynne
    Posted June 21, 2010 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    That was just a rude comment. I can tell you are having a lot of fun lashing out at vegans. Quite immature, if you ask me.

    1. Yes vegans fart. But so does the rest of the world.
    2. The body oders coming from obese meat eaters are 20 times worse than any vegan.
    3. All lives are important and all should be valued. That doesn’t mean that vegans think humans are insignificant compared to animals.
    4. Is it really common sense to eat meat that was pumped full of hormones and drink milk after we should have been weaned off of it? (by the way, have you noticed that no other species naturally would drink the milk of another, or that they would never drink milk for their entire lives like most humans do?)
    Calling vegans d-bags won’t get you anywhere in life. So don’t.

  111. OilCountryGirl
    Posted June 21, 2010 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Only because this looks like so much fun to join

    1. Agreed, I do know a lot of men who love the smell of their farts. And they eat meat.
    2. I think any body can smell if you don’t shower… that’s a given.
    3. I have heard some cruel comments from Vegans (although I know not all feel that way) about how people who eat meat should cease to exist… sounds like caring about animals more than humans, you don’t hear meat eaters saying… any vegan how kills a plant should die…
    4. Cats would drink milk all the time if they could… they also eat mice… does that make them horrible meat eaters like the humans??

  112. the truth
    Posted June 22, 2010 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    Like I was explaining earlier every vegan that I have had the misfortune of meeting was annoying and impossible to deal with on every level.
    The impression that I got from my vegan interactions was that they were very rude people with smug attitudes.
    If vegans want to be known as people who are a positive part of society then stop being mean to people who don’t believe or follow the vegan lifestyle.
    Until the day comes vegans will continue to be the douch bags of our society.

  113. Lynne
    Posted June 22, 2010 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry you met some unkind vegans, but understand that not all are like that. It’s sad that there are some vegans that force their opinions on other people and only care about their lifestyle and unfortunately, it is because of these people that the rest of us are thought badly of. I can’t change what you think about us, but please try to keep an open mind and know that not all vegans are rude and mean.

  114. Emma
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 2:38 am | Permalink

    Three arguments for you, rude vegan hater who told me that I am going to hell:

    Generalizing and assuming that all vegans are douche bags who force their opinions on others isn’t being rude and smug at all. Nope.

    If God wants us to eat animals, then why did He give them nervous systems? Hmmm? You would think that He would be kind enough to make their deaths painless if He meant for them to be killed.

    I am vegan, and I do not care about animals more than I do humans! I have several things on my “check list for life” that have something to do with human rights. They include adopting at least one child and traveling to Africa to help build a school or something similar. An arguement against veganism is that we are increasing world hunger by eating all of the plants that could be fed to hungry people, but the reality is that if we stopped raising animals for meat (or at least decreased the number), the food that was feeding the animals could go to feeding the hungry. As I said in my earlier comment, far too much food is wasted in the meat industry.

  115. Posted June 25, 2010 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    @Emma

    I appreciate your candid remarks. I say things to spin up people who disagree with me… because it’s fun! Reading your responses put a smile on this meat-eater’s face. :-)

    Anyways, I don’t think meat has anything to do for or against world hunger… and I’ve never heard that argument. But the arguments I have heard from Vegans all seem very, very weak — based on emotion and not reason.

    Clever remark about the nervous system, yet bugs and lower life that Vegan’s kill (knowingly and negligent-obliviously) have nervous systems, too. So we’ll go with animals are tasty and nutritious (no better muscle-building protein than red meat, cry as you might to the contrary).

    Really, I would have higher opinions of Vegans if more of them stopped encroaching on the animal kingdom with their homes and apartments.

  116. OilCountryGirl
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    @Emma

    The use of God in your comment again brings me back to my point earlier.

    ‘Christians are not forbidden to eat meat. Any meat may be eaten except for blood and strangled animals (because the blood remains in the meat). Peter was commanded by God to kill and eat the animals God presented before him (Acts 10:9-16). Paul instructed Christians to eat anything sold in the meat market without question (I Corinthians 10:25-26). In fact, the forbidding of eating certain foods is an indication of people departing from the Christian faith.’

    So please, if your going to try and argue that being vegan is better than being a meat eater, STOP USING GOD AS A REFERENCE!! Or is that all you have to use? Come up with something better and then get back to us!

  117. the truth
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    @OilCountryGirl

    Just wanted to say I love your posts. Keep up the good work!

  118. Emma
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    @WarAxe: Actually, most vegans, myself included, don’t kill bugs.

    @OilCountryGirl: I used a reference to God in my arguement because the person who calls him/herself “the truth” said that God hates vegans and that I’m going to hell for being vegan. My comment about God was in responce to that comment.

    I am through commenting here, because I see that all y’all are too rude and self absorbed to even listen to my arguements (which are perfectly reasonable and not solely based on emotion). It is a lost cause. Goodbye!

    P.S. I just have to remark on the names used by “WarAxe” and “OilCountryGirl” on this forum. I think it is funny that two of the most idiotic advocates of meat on here choose such stereotypical meat eater names. Not that I’m surprised, but I thought it was funny.

  119. OilCountryGirl
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    @Emma
    First off, where did you get from ANY of my posts that I am one of the most idiodic advocates of meat….. The only things I have ever said was that I HAVE to eat meat, Doctor’s orders, and to leave God out of it. Otherwise I have never EVER bashed your choice of being Vegan. So how about you take another look at my posts before you throw me under the bus along side waraxe (sorry waraxe).
    Second, how is oilcountrygirl a stereotypical meat eater name… I’m a HUGE Edmonton Oiler’s fan, you know, like the HOCKEY team… hense the OILCOUNTRYgirl… You are saying that all of us are rude and self-absorbed, take a look in the mirror… In one post you have called me rude, self-absorbed, idiotic, and stereotypical all in one post… and I’m the bad one? Try again.

  120. Emma
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    I said I wouldn’t comment again, but this is REALLY the last one. OilCountryGirl, I would like to sincerely appologize for being rude.

    1. I’ve never heard you say on here that you must eat meat for some medical reason, and like I said before, my comments about God were in reference to another comment.
    2. In your above comments, you argued against veganism. I never said that you were “bashing my choice to be vegan,” but I think it goes without saying that we all disagree about each others’ food choices. :P
    3. I didn’t know that the Oilers was a team, and I guess that comment about “OilCountryGirl” being a stereotypical meat eater game was pretty ridiculous. Sorry. I just think eating meat goes against environmentalism, and so does oil (I thought your name had something to do a job in the oil business or something).
    4. A lot of my ranting in that last comment was directed at WarAxe, not you, although I’m not going to lie and say that I wasn’t mad at you. I actually think you are one of less rude commenters, though, and I regret calling you one of the most “idiotic advocates of meat,” although I don’t regret it so much with some of the other users.

    OK, I guess my last comment was pretty out of line. I get really offended and upset when people say that animals don’t matter and that being vegan is bad. I feel like it’s a personal attack on me, and in some cases, it is. And NO, this is NOT because I am a crazy, extremist vegan, or that I am brain dammaged from not eating meat, so DON’T YOU DARE say anything about that, WarAxe, or I will get REALLY pissed. WarAxe, I also appologize to you for being rude, but I don’t feel as bad for being rude to you as I do for being rude to OilCountryGirl, as you are unreasonable and half of the things you say in your comments are attempts to piss us vegans off, which I find extremely immature. I do sincerely appologize for my immature behavior, but I don’t believe that the name-calling is one sided. There are a lot of people here that have called me names and offended me. I am vegan. There is nothing wrong with me (well, as far as being vegan goes), I am not negatively impacting the plant and animal kindoms, I do not care for animals more than I do humans, I do not ignore common sense…… *sigh* Why are we all so mean?

  121. Emma
    Posted June 25, 2010 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    K! I tried to comment back, but I don’t know if it was posted. So if it did post, ignore this one. Here’s roughly what I said:

    I said I wouldn’t comment again, but this is the last one. I would just like to sincerely appologize to OilCountryGirl (and others) for being rude and immature.

    1. I’ve never read a comment of yours where you said that you had to eat meat for some medical condition (I’m pretty sure I read all of them), and as I said before, my comments about God were in reference to someone else’s comment.
    2. I never said that you bashed my choice to be vegan, but you did argue against veganism. I think it goes without saying that we’re all bashing each others’ food choices here. :P
    3. OK, I guess that thing about “OilCountryGirl” being a stereotypical meat eater name was pretty ridiculous. I said that because I was majorly pissed and trying to think of some way to insult you. xD Pathetic, I know. I didn’t know that the Oilers were a team, and I thought that the “Oil” part was in reference to a job in the oil business or something. I think that eating meat goes against environmentalism, and so does oil…so…yeah.
    4. Most of my last comment was directed at WarAxe, and now that I think about it and re-read your comments, I know that *you* aren’t one of the most “idiotic advocates of meat.” I’m sorry for calling you that, and I’m also sort of sorry for calling WarAxe that. However, I think the description fits him (and some other posters) more than it fits you.

    I guess that my comment was pretty out of line. It’s just that I get really upset and offended when people say that animals don’t matter and that veganism is wrong. And NO, that is NOT because I am an insane, extremist vegan, or because my brain is dammaged from the lack of meat. So DON’T YOU DARE make a comment about what not eating meat has “done to me,” WarAxe. Most of the things that WarAxe says in his comments are attempts to piss us vegans off, and I find that VERY immature. I appologize for the immature and mean things that I said in my last comment, and the name-calling, but I stand by my thoughts about animal rights. I also don’t think that the name-calling is one sided. I have been told that there is something wrong with me, that I am going to hell, that God hates me, that my brain is dammaged, etc. I think we all need to be a little more respectful of each other.

  122. the truth
    Posted June 26, 2010 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    @Emma

    I am sorry to be the one to have to tell you this but you are out of touch with reality. It is clear to see that you should be eating meat to keep your brain operating correctly.
    When I say that you will go to hell because of your vegan lifestyle it is the truth! God does not tolerate stupidity.

  123. Posted June 26, 2010 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Some comments get held for moderation for mysterious reasons… it’s not me sitting behind the scenes watching each one every minute. If there’s swearing then it gets automatically held for moderation… but even some that are completely clean get held and I never know why (ask the folks at Akisket.com).

    I’m going to go see which ones are waiting and then comment.

  124. Posted June 26, 2010 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Nope, no comments waiting. Anyways… Ha ha… this is fun. I forget how much I miss this.

    Seriously, I don’t have a problem with anyone being a vegetarian. It’s when the step is taken to Veganism that the kookiest of the crunchies seem to stumble out of the bong closet. For instance, a vegetarian will say it’s okay for me to eat meat, and I say it it’s okay for them to just eat plants — I eat both. But Vegans are the ones trying to tell me that eating meat is bad… which pretty much paints a big target on them.

    Certain things I say because I know people agreeing with me will get a kick out of it and people disagreeing with my will be angered. That’s how I roll sometimes.

    I’m a big proponent of tough animal cruelty laws. I’m a huge animal lover. But I also see animals as lesser than humans.

    Effectively every Vegan is in some way a hypocrite because their very existence adversely affects the animal kingdom. Emma, you don’t intentionally kill bugs, but driving a car kills bugs… riding a bike kills bugs… even walking kills bugs. So really you do. Not that I see anything wrong with that, but you do… yet you do it, thereby triggering the hypocrisy flag.

    In fact, it’s really the nutty activism side of Veganism that started this whole post for me in the first place. I think that every Vegan I’ve talked to in real life couldn’t get very many questions deep with me before they admitted that they “didn’t have all the answers”.

    That doesn’t mean the conversation isn’t worth having.

  125. the truth
    Posted June 26, 2010 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    @WarAxe

    I just wanted to say thank you for allowing all of us the chance to express ourselves about the Vegan lifestyle.
    Hopefully people will realize that we do speak the truth about Veganism.
    Our world will be much better if all Vegans would wake up and live a normal life.
    The fact that Vegans love plants and animals more than humans really worries me.
    I believe that God hates the smug attitude Vegans have about themselves and their lifestyle.

  126. Lynne
    Posted June 27, 2010 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Sigh. I agree with Emma that this is getting old and I’m going to have to stop commenting soon because every time i see a new comment it just makes me feel upset.
    I respect waraxe’s last comment, but come on “the truth.” Stop saying that God will hate me for being vegan. I care about humans and animals and the earth and I know you argue that being vegan is “stupid” and not helping anything. But is it bad that I don’t want to contribute to factory farming? I honestly prefer hunting to that.
    I do not think that I will go to hell for being vegan and caring about the lives of humans AND animals and I also don’t think that you will go to hell for eating meat. We eat different things and live different lives but that doesn’t mean vegans are better than meat eaters or vice-versa.
    I respect your choice to eat meat and won’t try to change your mind so don’t attack us all for choosing not to eat meat or dairy.

  127. Posted June 27, 2010 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    @Lynne

    It’s my understanding that Vegans are against anyone eating meat, not just themselves. But from what you are saying it sounds like you are not that way. Are there different “degrees” of Veganism? I have never encountered any Vegans who weren’t very activist-bossy about it.

  128. Lynne
    Posted June 27, 2010 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    @WarAxe
    Well I’m vegan simply because I do not want to contribute to factory farming and I do care about animals. However, I have close friends that eat meat and I’ve dated people that eat meat. I feel as though being vegan is my choice and if other people don’t want to be vegan then that’s okay, atleast I am. If people ask me about veganism then I tell them, but I don’t tell them more than they want to know (this is partly because I’m only in high school and I really don’t want to bother people more than necessary and make enemies at this point in my life).
    Some vegans can push the limits, but I know that pushing those limits will just make people dislike us. So I try not to.

  129. the truth
    Posted June 27, 2010 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    @Lynne

    It is clear that you disagree with the practice of factory farming.
    I have done many hours of research on this subject and feel that can be improved to make it more humane.
    My point is that if you think something is wrong then be proactive and help find a better way to perform it.
    If you just sit there talking or thinking about how bad or wrong something is then nothing will ever change.
    This holds true for all issues that you feel passionate about.

  130. OilCountryGirl
    Posted June 28, 2010 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    @Emma
    Thank you, and I apologize if I have ever said anything that sounded like I was against veganism. I’m not against the lifestyle, just the ones who feel the need to preach about it. Then again, I’m against anything that some one ‘preaches’ to me.
    @the truth
    I was going to say thank you for liking my posts, however after reading some of what you said I think I won’t. Waraxe has admitted that he says things to get people riled up and seems like he feels the same way I do about the situation. You on the other hand (along with a few others I have read from both sides, vegan and meat eater) are so hell bent on being ‘right’ you are pushing the limits. I have said it before and I will say it again. LEAVE GOD OUT OF IT. No one is going to hell because of what they eat, whether it’s plants or meat. Question for you ‘the truth’, how do you eat your steak?

  131. the truth
    Posted June 28, 2010 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    @OilCountryGirl

    You think that I push the limits and You are right.
    I always have and always will.
    Please try to understand.
    If not then You can go to hell and be with the Vegans.

  132. OilCountryGirl
    Posted June 28, 2010 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    @thetruth

    glad to see we are all mature in here…..

  133. the truth
    Posted June 28, 2010 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    @OilCountryGirl

    It was a little bit funny. admit it.

  134. dietrisks
    Posted July 1, 2010 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    I was in a Fazoli’s resteraunt once where an angry vegetarian was yelling at the employees because his food had been “contaminated” by a bit of meat that was mistakenly put in his food. That same logic can be followed with these vegansexuals, they don’t want any relationships that would contaminate their vegan beliefs.

  135. the truth
    Posted July 2, 2010 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    The best solution would be to put all of the Vegans on a island in the middle of nowhere.
    After all of the Vegans are there just drop a bomb on that island and all Our problems will be solved.

  136. the truth
    Posted July 2, 2010 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Another option would be to place all Vegans on a big farm and use them to produce a steady supply of meat products.
    The Vegans will be happy to do this because We will no longer need to kill animals for Our meat.
    Vegan meat for everyone!

  137. Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)
    Posted July 3, 2010 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    @ the truth

    Sir, you are the MOST ignorant debater I have ever had the displesure of reading from. You say God hates Vegans and so forth, which is completely absurd (see OilCountryGirl’s agruements). God loves everyone equally. I’m not even Christian and I know about the religion you are screaming about than you do. On top of that, your last comment actually PROMOTES murder and cannibalism… Very christian of you… I’m sure your pastor would especially be proud of that comment. No offence intended, sir, but it is hypocritical Christains such as yourself that turned me away from that religion and brought me to Paganism. I am Pagan and our religion are known as “the hippies.” We are the biggest advocates of veganism ON THE PLANET. I eat meat. I don’t think there is anything better than a big KC Strip cooked medium-rare. Our religion is not perfect. We have our radicals. We also don’t try to turn people from their beliefs or judge them like you have been THIS ENTIRE ARGUEMENT.

    None of your arguements(if that is what you call your incoherent ramblings) make any sense or headway on this subject. You’re just an immature child that found a place they can scream like a baby again. Grow up and let the others enjoy the discussion.

    @ OilCountryGirl
    You seem to be a very enlightened person. your arguements are the most level-headed on the forum and I applaud you for taken a semi-neutral stand-point. I’m interested in the medical issue that requires you to eat mean. Is it like an iron deficiency or something?

  138. Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)
    Posted July 3, 2010 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    Also…

    @ Waraxe

    I can understand liking to get people riled up. It can be fun. I know it is. I do it as well. But you need to know when they are TOO riled. You have to find the happy medium. Pissing everyone off accomplishes nothing and there is intense fighting all around the world. To bring it onto the internet for no good reason.= is just adding to an already annoying enough problem. I think you’re an OK guy though.

  139. the truth
    Posted July 3, 2010 at 3:08 am | Permalink

    @Chris(A.K.A:Tiny)

    You believe in Paganism but say that I am the ignorant one?
    That is the funniest thing I have ever heard in My life.

  140. Lynne
    Posted July 3, 2010 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    @the truth

    Why do you feel the need to say such rude comments? Alright, you don’t agree with veganism. We get it.
    Please, I don’t say that all meat eaters should be shot and I most certainly don’t think they should be. Do you really want all vegans to be killed, or are you just trying to antagonize people?
    Please mature a little more. Your comments are uncalled for.

  141. OilCountryGirl
    Posted July 5, 2010 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    @Chris (a.k.a tiny)

    Thank you. That means a lot.
    It’s a heart condition, called SVT. One of the symptoms of it is lower iron levels. They thought I was anemic, so they gave me iron pills which actually made my iron levels lower then they were before the pills. After that my doctor told me to eat red meat at least three times a week and my iron levels have been perfect ever since. I never use to eat much red meat, was more of a chicken person. But I don’t have a choice anymore.

  142. Bob Knob
    Posted July 11, 2010 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Anyone claiming a herbivorous diet is superior to an omnivorous diet for health is just ignorant.

  143. Something Clever
    Posted July 13, 2010 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    The large majority of this conversation is pointless. You aren’t going to convince anyone else on the internet that their beliefs are wrong, so you might as well let everyone just bash vegans here. Not saying it’s right, or that WarAxe is serious about it, but it’s not doing any good to argue.

    Both sides are ridiculously over-generalizing the other. Yes, a lot of vegans are obnoxious about their habits, and some are left-wing nutjobs (but this distinction isn’t unique to vegans – vegetarians can be just the same). In the same vein, meat-eaters or carnivores (which both sound a bit inflammitory and derogitory, don’t you think?) aren’t all excited to go out and harm animals constantly. It’s better to think of both sides as enlightened individuals and give them too much credit.

    My personal beliefs aren’t important, but I’ve had several friends who were varying stages of vegetarian or vegan. Either way, they were all perfectly normal individuals, and I can respect one person trying to make an effort to reduce their impact on the environment. Yes, WarAxe… they do still kill bugs and unknowingly have a negative impact on the environment, but the goal is to lessen the impact they have, not completely eliminate it. I know you aren’t completely ignorant, but I feel some other people reading might take you a bit too seriously.

    On the other side – while most of us can agree that animal cruelty is wrong, several of the arguments vegans have posted in support of animals are flawed. Some meat processing industries are surely corrupt and cruel, but that doesn’t mean that all are. Do your research on the packaging companies and choose ones that are “cruelty free”. As others have said, many small farms treat animals well, and it doesn’t seem necessary to avoid all meat just to avoid cruelty if options like these exist.

    Some also do not see the distinction between how we (ideally) slaughter animals for food and killing animals in an inhumane way. In fact, because of the speed of nerve impulses, it is entirely possible to kill an animal with a minimal or nonexistant amount of pain. And killing animals for food is completely natural. I don’t see the more extreme anti-meat proponents trying to stop a lion from ripping out a gazelle’s throat because it’s “cruel”.

    Farming is also not unnatural. Many other species subjugate other animals. Ants farm aphids for sugary secretions, and have evolved specific roles for these “farmers”. If it’s found in nature, it’s natural, right?

    Now I agree that vegans as a whole don’t all hold the beliefs of some commenters, but I felt it necessary to refute some of the easier and less informed points some have made. Hope we can find some neutral ground.

    tl;dr Everyone here is wrong – a little bit.

  144. Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)
    Posted July 16, 2010 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    @ the truth

    Your comment to my last point only proves my point about you even more. Give it up, you’re just embarrassing yourself. BTW if you are a christian, judging others when it is not your place to judge them (it’s god’s) makes you worse than any non-believer ever could be. It makes you a hypocrite. It’s sad really. You’re sad. as for my belief in Paganism, you’re just jealous your religion isn’t original and actually stemmed from mine (LOL JK, but it really did). Grow up a bit kid.

    @ OilCountryGirl

    That is really interesting. I figured it had to do with the iron levels in your blood. I’ve never hear of SVT. What exactly does it stand for? Is it genetic (aquired at birth) or did something in your life cause it later in life? Does it cause random muscle cramps/ I know lack of both iron and potassium can cause occassional muscle spasms.

  145. the truth
    Posted July 27, 2010 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    @Chris(A.K.A:Tiny)

    If you ever left your parents basement then you would see that my comments about vegans are true.
    I think that you get all your information from the internet instead of real life experience.
    You are the weakest link. Good bye!

  146. OilCountryGirl
    Posted September 3, 2010 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    @Chris(A.K.A:Tiny)

    It stands for supraventricular tachycardia. Honestly not really sure how it came about, started noticing it years ago and it just slowly got worse :) . The only thing it really affects is if I have an attack I need to sit down or I’ll pass out. Although I have noticed the more meat I eat the less the attacks happen.

  147. xited4life
    Posted September 10, 2010 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    this article shows no respect for vegans choices. i agree, vegans should not force their beliefs on anyone, however, your arguements are so ridiculous. as part of a vegan family, i can say that we do not aim to eliminate all suffering – but to use our lives to role model the life of vegans to others – and so i enjoy life and will not kill myself.
    PEOPLE – please open your minds or at least respect the choices in my life and other vegans – as one should respect and tolerate other religions and traditions. we don’t bring harm to you or threaten you. please, accept the choices of vegans for they are ours.

  148. Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)
    Posted September 14, 2010 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    @ the truth

    Nice try. Just quit. It is obvious you need to get some friends or something to take some of that free time off your hands. You’re patetic.

    @ OilCountryGirl

    I find that very interesting. I’m going to have to research that a bit. Very interesting indeed.

  149. the truth
    Posted September 16, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    @Chris (A.K.A: Tiny)

    You responded back to Me saying that I was patetic. The correct spelling is pathetic.
    You may want to consider going back to school to learn how to spell words correctly.
    You are still the weakest link. Good bye!

  150. the truth
    Posted December 17, 2010 at 1:39 am | Permalink

    For whatever reason people have not been posting any comments on this great subject. Please start posting again!!!

  151. Cathleen
    Posted January 10, 2011 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think the point of veganism is to make the world a beautiful, wonderful utopia and save aaalll the animals! That’s ridiculous.
    I just believe in being conscious about what you’re eating. I think truly knowing about where the food you eat comes from is the most important. You wouldn’t eat candy from a stranger (or would you? O_O), and I think purchasing whatever is “tasty” from whatever store you want is just the same. I think as long as you KNOW what your food is made of, how it’s made, and where it comes from, you can choose to eat whatever you like.
    Personally, I find the production of food from most conventional and big-name companies to be disgusting, but if you don’t think it’s gross, more power to you. As long as you know your facts, I think the choice is all yours.

  152. Oratech
    Posted January 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    I agree. I love meat and it has to be apart of almost all of meals and i feel great and very healthy.

  153. Mandy
    Posted January 20, 2011 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Look, I have respect for all of you carnivores, so have a little respect for us.

    I put up with the following questions and remarks daily:
    - What do you EAT?
    - How do you get protein?
    - The animals are going to die anyway.
    - Do you eat bread?
    - Just eat meat this once, it won’t kill you.
    - You USED to like -insert meat-related dish-
    - Vegan food is gross.

    It’s really obnoxious to hear these ignorant comments, in addition to having meat shoved in my face quite often. It’s just the same as a Christian getting on a Muslim’s case for wearing a hijab. Would you tell a Muslim woman to “take of her scarf because it isn’t a big deal, just this once”? I don’t care if you eat meat. But if you shove your god damn beliefs down my throat, you better be ready to get the same response from me.

  154. the truth
    Posted April 1, 2011 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    I think that People who follow the Vegan lifestyle should seek out some psycholocial help from a qualified professional. Hopefully after that They will realize the error of Thier ways. Until then all We can do is pray for them and hope They get better.

  155. ALLknowingFRESHMEN
    Posted April 12, 2011 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    1 Major point:

    Vegans, eat only plants, and anything that isn’t meat or dairy. Vegans diet also includes the wide spectrum of bread,flour, grain, etc.

    It is not very healthy for your body to be a vegetarian, not to mention the extreme vegan version. Salad and say quiche, for dinner won’t be that filling. So, to supplement your dinner would probably be grains, white flour products, and the like. Carbohydrate supplements do not give you much of anything in regard to iron, protein, and such needed minerals needed to keep your body in proper homeostasis condition. All the vegans I know are not in great health. Most vegans would refuse to take dietary supplements because of what the pills casing is made of, or because it isn’t natural to take pills for nutrition.

    On the other hand, it isn’t natural for humans to be herbivores! We evolved from primeapes, and they eat meat when given the chance. The chimpanzee, a perfect example. We evolved into omnivores, and it is just plain stupid to go backwards on thousands of generations of adaptations.

    If you don’t want animals to die, or get abused, or whatever then do something about it! Being passive and thinking you are helping by not eating meat is a very close-minded way of thinking. You can petition for humane farms and such, but being passive won’t change the world.

    This is my rant from study hall, and I look forward to lamb chops for dinner! My family buys meat from organic humane upstate NY farms instead of companies such as Murray’s.

    Think of what you can do that extends beyond your house.

  156. the truth
    Posted April 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    I think that We should just farm the Vegans for meat.
    The Vegans will agree to be eaten knowing that the animals will remain alive to live out Their lives in peace and happiness.

  157. Charles
    Posted July 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    “You’re a real winner. Cows eat grasses and grain that aren’t intended for human consumption. Farms produce food… not consume it… otherwise they wouldn’t be farms and they wouldn’t make a profit. Your logic is killing the poor people… how about that?”

    Doubt I’ll post here more then once unless this site warns me of other comments, but I would like to point out that this statement is exceedingly wrong. The food you eat at the end is often, if not always, processed heavily – either that or it usually have a heavy labour cost in actually harvesting it. The food given to animals is generally more of a mish mash (making sure there aren’t bug in your flour is a lot more required then making sure there aren’t bugs in the cow feed).

    Animal meat gives a relatively similar amount of calorie per pound as other foodstuffs (beef gives around 450 calories per 200 grams, grains around 700 per 200, soy around 375 per 250, 200 per 165). It takes an average of 7 to 10 times the amount of grain to get a grain-fed animal into the world (http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/meat-wastes-natural-resources.aspx), not to count the water difference as well as the massive increase in land (http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/enviro/why_does.html). So yes, you end up starving a good portion of the world to have meat, making it incredible none sustainable (and thusly, something you probably won’t have in the next few hundred years without eating stemcell beef (C) or being mega-wealthy).

    Also, farmers are some one of the most heavily subsidized groups in the world (meaning, the government gives them money to stay afloat without problem). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy (look at the section on US and EU) – before anyone points out that meat isn’t in there, feed is animal food, which just leaves terrain rental and water usage for your meat. This point invalidates your “they have to make money” statement as they get free-cash handed out to them. In case you can’t think that far out, this is mostly done to prevent loss of security in developed nations (that way, africa doesn’t supply the US with 90% of it’s food and one day go “Hey, you know what? Let ‘em starve”. You can replace africa with whatever country you don’t particularly like).

    Your logic is killing my brain, how about that?

    “It is not very healthy for your body to be a vegetarian, not to mention the extreme vegan version”

    Remarkably remarkably false, and proof you have only researched the “my-view-only” way. Everything you need (even B-12 in certain forms of sea-weed, granted, the bio-availability being none-existent of B-12 from meat is heavily debated as one of the reasons a lot of people suffer when they are older, so let’s leave that storm out of this argument). Beans give you good iron, most vitamins are only found in plants, soy (tofu especially) gives you great magnesium and manganese, and you could easily go on with everything else. The complimentary protein myth has been massively debunked, so as long as you don’t try living off only one food (and living off only beef = you die anyways), you’re safe.

    “On the other hand, it isn’t natural for humans to be herbivores! We evolved from primeapes, and they eat meat when given the chance. The chimpanzee, a perfect example.”

    Chimps rarely eat meat (around 3% of the time), and they also eat baby chimps. So, I assume since they eat baby chimp we should start having human baby back ribs, since you state “do like the chimps, eat some meat!” The rest of the apes are basically herbivores, with some exceptions (then again, I can link you a videos of a cow eating a baby chicken and a wolf eating berries and grass – so only propose we are “omnivores” if you’re a imbecile from this point on). Send me an e-mail if you want to debate more, but honestly, it sounds like most of the debates here are either pro animal nuts, or pro meta eating nuts, so at least have some fuel for your fire.

    I’m a vegan, two years running, who only has honey as his none-vegan thing. – Ah, there is a notify via e-mail button, jolly-o.

  158. Ben
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Funniest thing about this whole line of comments is the solid FACT, that people are going to keep on eating meat, and there isnt ONE THING that vegans are going to do about it. Now, continue wasting your time, by all means..

  159. Charles
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    “Funniest thing about this whole line of comments is the solid FACT, that people are going to keep on eating meat, and there isnt ONE THING that vegans are going to do about it. Now, continue wasting your time, by all means..”

    And people around the world are going to keep drowning kitten, stabbin’ babies, driving SUVs and wasting energy, and exposing people to warcrimes by doing things like ripping their scrotum skin off. Does that mean we should stop upholding the Geneva convention, stop improving fuel mileage, stop funding kid’s help desk, and start stabbin’ us some more kittens?

    You logic, she is flawless. Like a sunken boat.

  160. Dean
    Posted September 8, 2011 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    I’m not a vegan(or vegetarian) or a christian but I think your article is completely biased and you are not understanding other people’s viewpoints.

    You are bashing vegans on what a small subgroup of them do. You state that “Each living vegan is negatively impacting the plant and animal kingdom.” when they are trying their best to make up for some of the problems humans have caused.

    Killing and eating animals is sometimes necessary, breeding genetically modified freak animals for slaughter is not. Industrial meat is pumped full of hormones to increase the amount of meat that can be produced from a single animal and antibiotics to counter the unsanitary conditions on factory farms. The animals are fed cheap grain and waste in order to decrease the cost of raising the animal and increase corporate profit margins. Don’t be thinking they are mooching about chomping on grass.

    About now you are wondering why I’m not vegan, I think that one person choosing not to eat tasty meat is not going to change much, though it likely would be healthier. I understand why some vegans are going to want to spread the word about the problems with the meat industry, they know just by themselves it’s not going to change much but if they can inform other people about their beliefs they might make more of an impact.

  161. OilCountryGirl
    Posted September 9, 2011 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    I have been reading these comments for just about a year and they still make me laugh. As Charles stated most of the debates here are either pro animal nuts, or pro meat eating nuts. With that I say MOST. I am a meat eater, 100%, as I have stated before, I was informed it was the best choice for my condition. That doesn’t mean I condone factory farming. I am quite picky about where I get my meat from. With that being said, there are way to many on here lashing out at each other about how horrible their life choices are. Your choice is your choice, stop preaching (and that goes for moth sides) about how your way is the only way. I appreciate the options vegans/vegetarians have expressed on here for replacing meat with certain fruits and veggies to still get the same vitamins and minerals. Will that make me stop eating meat, never, but it did give me more ideas for things to add to my meal plan.

    @charles

    Your first comment was great, very to the point. Your second, however, was flawed.

    “And people around the world are going to keep drowning kitten, stabbin’ babies, driving SUVs and wasting energy, and exposing people to warcrimes by doing things like ripping their scrotum skin off. Does that mean we should stop upholding the Geneva convention, stop improving fuel mileage, stop funding kid’s help desk, and start stabbin’ us some more kittens?”

    First off, I thought they were drowning kittens and stabbing babies, in the end they are stabbing kittens? Where do you live? It sounds horrible. Second, I don’t thing that comparing what vegans are pushing to something like the kid’s help desk or the Geneva convention is a fair analogy. PS. most new SUV’s are greener… with that, people driving said new SUV’s are actually ‘improving fuel mileage” (though I’m shock THAT was your arguement and not that they harm the environment).. Just saying.

  162. OilCountryGirl
    Posted September 9, 2011 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    “(and that goes for *moth sides)”

    Wow, I apparently need to learn how to type… *both

  163. WMD
    Posted November 23, 2011 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Why talk about the civil wars/wars around the world, when we could be talking about things that nature had created. Now getting more serious, people die everyday from other people. Think about all the horrific things people do to animals, thats nothing compared to war and genocide. People getting skined alive, 10 million people dying from starvation, sickeness, and getting a bullet in their head, and 200,000 people dead from two bombs, like my name! Unlike most animals we have ability to think and understand out surroundings, also to make valid thoughts (most of the time). Most animals do not, they are not even self aware. I can shoot a cow in the face of another one and the other cows would not even care. Shove 20 chickens in one cage with their poop. They will not even think about the poop in the cage and just keep doing what they do. They have no purpose rather than to eat and have sex. Besides the point, why is wrong anyway. Animals kill other animals worse than we do, so why is it wrong? Aren’t we animals. Can’t we kill other animals to keep nature under control. To end this off, to all the people that think we are natural vegan. Why do we a bacteria that process meat but not plants.

  164. Charles
    Posted November 23, 2011 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    It sounds horrible. Second, I don’t thing that comparing what vegans are pushing to something like the kid’s help desk or the Geneva convention is a fair analogy. PS. most new SUV’s are greener… with that, people driving said new SUV’s are actually ‘improving fuel mileage” (though I’m shock THAT was your arguement and not that they harm the environment).. Just saying.

    Actually, smart cars are far better then SUVs, trucks, or cars. Car are better then SUVs and trucks, and SUVs and trucks are pretty much as bad. While that public transit is technically the best. As well, thanks to capitalism and explotationism, we have cars that perform very poorly fuel wise. What I was pointing out was not weither one was good or bad, but that what is done is extremely ineffecient.

    Also, no, meat eating compared to mass murder is not a fair comparison. The comparison I was making was wasting 2’000x the energy growing meat, vs feeding the 15 million and more who die a year due to hunger. (15 million figure is only kids http://www.womenaid.org/press/info/food/food4.html)

    As to the stabbing kitten and babies, I was (purposefully) mixing up things that a normal person would just not do to show an extreme.

    To WMD :

    Where you dropped as a child, or thrown? It’s one of those two, because nothing else can explain what you just said. “Oh hai, we rape and nuke peple aniway so why not jus eat meat the der are gonna eat ech other aniwai so lets nuke thm and eat them to!” Let’s address these points in order.

    1: Animals are dirty. Some yes, most are since they have a tendency of being very mobile, and thus not needing to care about where they shit. Pigs, for instance, are very clean animals. They are the only farm animal that has a designated corner of the pen to shit. Animals are all clean to within themselves, humans tend to shove them into places were they can’t really clean themselves (also, if someone brings up stuff like mice carry diseases, remember, mice only carry diseases we can catch – it’s like if your perfume could kill a lemur, that’s you being toxic to it, but it doesn’t affect you).

    2: Animals aren’t conscious. This one could be a big dousie to tackle, but put mildly. . . There’s a cat that befriended a crow; crows can solve puzzles and can teach other crows (such as warning them what house has a human that kills crows); pigs and dogs have loyalty; chimps wage war, use tools and weaponry; and I could probably go on with quite a few more things. This is more then enough to put most of these animals above some people I know. You can read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cognition#Research_questions Granted, you probably won’t.

    3: We have bacteria that processess meat. BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Where in the hell did you hear this? Seriously, there’s speaking out of your ass and then there’s. . . Whatever that is. We have to cook all meats and dump ammonia into a lot of our meats (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html?pagewanted=all) AND keep the damn things frozen or they go bad overnight, and you think we somehow have a bacteria that processes’ it? We die from bacteria we catch FROM meat.

    4: I can shoot a cow and the other won’t care. (disturbing video link) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkcxrbviu-A yes, this cow didn’t look completely disturbed and freaking puzzled as to what killed/happened it’s buddy before getting shot it’s self.

    5: People are mean to people so let’s be mean to animals! “You can judge a man’s true character by the way he treats his fellow animals.”

  165. J Davis
    Posted December 7, 2011 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    To the author of this “article”, I was just wondering why you would go to the effort of writing this, take the time to respond to everyone’s posts, but then you don’t seem to want to bother doing any honest research? If this is something you care about, I’m not sure I understand why you wouldn’t want a proper education. If there’s one thing I know about vegans, it’s that they’ve done the research. They know about nutrition, the environment, the honest treatment of animals meant for human consumption. Do you really think someone would just stop eating meat and dairy without having done a hell of a lot of research? Meat tastes damn good. Topped with cheese. Vegans don’t argue that. Why would someone give that up without being completely confident in that decision? Paul McCartney, Ellen DeGeneres, Bill Clinton (maybe not the best example of an intelligent person :-) ), among MANY others, surely have access to proper education, no? Vegans aren’t all unhealthy and stupid. It’s BECAUSE of what they’ve learned that they’ve made the choices they’ve made. Until you have read as much as they have, watched all the videos, spoken to doctors and nutritionists…then you can write an article about being vegan or eating meat. As someone who cared enough to write this, I don’t see how you don’t owe that to yourself.

    If you have done all of this research, I’m sure everyone would be interested in reading your thoughts on that, instead of most of your empty responses that don’t actually say anything factual or productive. I understand that you like to rile people up, and I respect that. It’s funny, everyone loves a good debate. But seriously, I’d love to hear you talk about this in a knowledgeable way.

  166. Joey P
    Posted December 8, 2011 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    The saddest thing about this entire thing is the misconception about god. God doesn’t exist, so any religious statements can be considered irrelevant. Eventually kids find out there isn’t a Santa…I think it’s time some of you grew up. It’s time. Kids get over it…sooo…I think it’ll be ok. Surely you’ve grown out of the rest of your imaginary friends, right? The bible? Greatest fairytale ever told. There were some creative writers back then. Right up there with Walt Disney and Dr Seuss. Of course it makes sense people would be ignorant about veganism if they are still so ignorant about “god.” Release yourselves from this mental asylum. Open those eyes to reality. Welcome.

  167. Rachael
    Posted January 3, 2012 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    n/a is a pretty awesome being. I can only speak from personal experience. I have been vegetarian since conception, vegan most of my life and never eaten red meat. It honestly seems kinda gross. I can attest to being harassed my whole life and bullied by meat eaters. My parents were sued by the state for raising us vegan as they said we would be undernourished. When we came to court, the judge threw it out. Why? Because we were all very tall, tested in the tops of our classes, and generally excelled over those other poor kiddos who were being fed a diet full of hard to digest animal products. I am pro-athlete, yogi and fitness instructor, well into my thirties without a single wrinkle. I get stopped in the street by women asking me how i get my hair to look so amazing(it’s long and blonde and thick). I never get sick, or the flu, I never gain extra weight. Veganism completely rocks for me. I give talks on veganism, to students who want these benefits, especially explaining the protein myth – you need amino acids, not complete protein, as your body cannot use complete protein, it must first break it down into amino acids, and then rebuild it to form a protein chain it can use. If like builds like, then the best way to build a tricep would be to eat one? How do those cows get so big only eating grass? hmmmm I do find it kinda fun when commentators on this thread like to say something like ” have a steak, it will help you think”. I mean, that’s funny, me being vegan and all, and I tested into mensa at age 12, without the use of a steak. Many of my students like to share their diet strategies with me, the paleo, the aktins, the eat right for your blood type, and then they share their ailments with me, from arthritus, to high blood pressure, to diabetes etc. What is always strange to me, is they don’t see the link between all of these. My father, a vegetarian of 40 years (he eats some dairy) is in well in his seventies and regularly leads hikes for his hiking club of over 10 miles. He is a machine!! He takes no prescription drugs, and looks like he is about 51. In fact, when we go out for a drink(yes, I heartily enjoy life) people often mistake us for a couple as he looks that young and his skin actually glows. I could go on and on with personal details, but my point is this – vegans are getting tremendous health benefits that meat eaters cannot have. You do not have to join us. We are already getting all the benefits whether or not you are!! It’s not that eating meat will kill you immediately like a fast poison, but because we have the digestive system of the great apes, we are not designed to eat meat, and it kills you slowly, by poisoning your blood, your bowels enlarged(is that a basketball you are hiding under that shirt?), cancer, high blood pressure, all those fun diseases i deal with in my classes and health practices. I’ve helped several people cure their diabetes using food as medicine, and two cases of cancer by using food as medicine. So you can eat it, and in times of starvation, I will join you! But, when we have options, why not eat to thrive, to be vital instead of just to survive? Meat eating does not provide optimal nutrition, and it causes many health issues, like obesity, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc. So no one is right or wrong on here, just some using a healthier tool set. I also do think meat eaters should have to visit a slaughterhouse and participate if they are going to eat dead animals, be brave and look them in the eye and kill them. Anyway, just wanted to join in because it seemed so fun! I wonder if the waraxe will come down on me? I am a rarity, a very healthy, witty, snarky happy successful vegan who is so grateful to never have to fight cravings for meat like a lot of other vegans do. I have no food addictions, health problems and just enjoy cooking and eating simply. I wish ya’all would give a try! You wont believe how clear your mind gets once you get rid of “dairy clog”, or how much more energy you have. Plus how much funnier you can be when your brain works like a ninja! Plus, you smell so much better, your hair and nails grow healthier…. So ya, I feel fucking lucky to get live in this super vital body. The door is always open for you to reclaim your health and get rid of that meat gut. Peas!!!!

  168. OilCountryGirl
    Posted January 18, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    @ Rachael

    Just curious, are you trying to imply that all meat eaters are obese?

    As much as you had an upbeat attitude throughout your comment, it still seemed like you were “nicely” insulting those of us that eat meat.

    To each there own, but honestly, my grandmother drove across Canada all by herself every year until she passed at the age of 91. She was healthy, active… and a meat eater.

    Now I’m not trying to argue that one way is better then the other, but it would be nice if you didnt try to imply that all meat eaters are fat, unhealthy and going to die at an early age.

  169. the truth
    Posted February 4, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I still believe that Vegans are the downfall of Our society. Anything bad that happens on this planet can be traced back to Vegans. 2012 is the year of the Vegan.

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  1. By Dining with death | Social Psychology Eye on August 24, 2010 at 10:13 am

    [...] For example, like the atheists, vegetarians and vegans are often accused of being arrogant and self-righteous. One would think that all vegetarians and vegans are running around telling people how to eat. Of [...]

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