I just read an article today talking about a group of New Zealanders who fancy themselves as so-called “vegansexuals” – that is, they only have sex with other vegans. Supposedly this all stems from them not wanting to be exposed to people who have “filled themselves with decomposing carcasses”. This begs the question… what the heck is wrong with vegans?
A rudimentary perusing of the vegans’ literature and “statements of faith” [my term] will shock most sensible people. While the pursuit of humane treatment for animals is noble – and something I greatly agree with – the thought that by simply not eating meat, fish, or dairy (and actually a bazillion other things you’d never think were animal-related) you are avoiding negatively affecting the natural environment and the animal kingdom is laughable… laughable in a riotous hyena-slapping kind of way [and I recommend a little more iron from red meat might stimulate the brain waves into clearer thinking].
You see… as a living creature ourselves, humans consume their surroundings. We breath the surrounding oxygen… we eat the surrounding plants and animals (mmm… tasty animals)… we occupy the surrounding shelter. We actively displace the natural environment – be it plant or animal – that would otherwise occupy our space… and we consume the food and resources that would otherwise sustain that nature we are displacing. We partake in a society that burns fossil fuels. Every day we live pollutes the land. We are the antithesis of environmentally-friendly.
So the very existence of a vegan is a paradox at best… and vegans having children is outright hypocrisy. Each living vegan is negatively impacting the plant and animal kingdom. The only way to really, truly stop adversely affecting the environment is to kill yourself. So any vegan who is spreading their “faith” has obviously not killed themselves, and decided that selfishly living in knowing exploitation of nature is better… and should thus not be taken very seriously.
And besides… if we weren’t meant to eat animals, why are so many made of steak? 
Those wishing to truly help nature and the animal kingdom should visit Ted Nugent’s hunting website or Easy Wild Game Recipes.
I'm a Christ-follower, compelled by my faith toward reason, which points directly toward conservatism. This world's daily onslaught of lunacy offends my intellect and senses, so this is my venue to blow off steam.
Your approach to criticising veganism is very faulty and common of someone who doesn’t quite understand the philosophy in itself. If you criticise veganism with a “utopian paradigm” of course you come up with the startling conclusion that veganism is not in fact a perfect solution to the problems of the world. Veganism and animal rights seeks to greatly reduce animal explotation, bodily, and worldy harm of living beings.
Adam- WarAxe is not criticizing veganism for not being perfect, but that it is a set of wispy notions built on faulty assumptions that only serves to make those people who label themselves as such feel good about themselves. I’ll not rehash The argumentsin the original post, but here are some others. First, what about plants. Plants are just as alive as animals, and when we eat or wear them we are directly harming living beings. And you can imagine what I could say about the untold billions of bacteria living and dying around you daily. Second, I would think that a humane farm that harvested milk and eggs would be the most acceptable. No animals are exploited, bodily or worldly harmed. (and having first-hand knowledge of farm animals, milk-cows are not unhappy). A somewhat more consistent philosophy would be to eat ONLY those products coming from animals or plants which are renewable – eggs and milk and fruits and nuts – and clothing oneself in only wool. Now I say this is only only a bit more consistent because, as WarAxe said, our existence means that we impact the environment and animals (and plants and bacteria) will suffer and die for it, and if you are really serious about not harming another living thing, then might I suggest a gallon of antifreeze or carbon monoxide inhalation, both painless.
Now I am all for reducing suffering. And truthfully, deer are better off if we hunt them. We have killed off the wolves and now there are too many deer, and they starve.And the do not starve by just the excess amount. Example – if there is enough food for 10 and there are 20 deer, there are not ten healthy deer and ten skeletal deer, there are 20 half-fed deer. A true animal lover would go out today, buy a rifle or shot-gun, and relish his (or her) venison tenderloin in the morning.
@ Adam :: I would say that it *is* my understanding of the philosophy itself that drives my criticism. I have no issue with vegan practices… but vegans have issue with my practices, and that’s where their philosophy becomes fair game [pardon the pun]. What could be more of a “utopian paradigm” than the principles behind veganism? And that’s really what this is all about. Veganism is “feel-good” behavior driven by a failure to accept the order of things (and probably failure to accept the second law of thermodynamics).
@ Montane :: Wow… I couldn’t have said it better myself. Great points all around. Especially good illustration of the neo-symbiotic relationship between farm animals and farmers… a correlation the vegans outright reject. But that demonstrates the “kookiness” of the belief system. Like you said, I could understand dietary eccentricities based on personal preference… but not wearing silk because silkworms “feel pain”? Not wearing iridescent eye shadow because it’s made of insect wings? No beer because it’s clarified with fish swim bladders? No apples because they’re shellac-ed with insect resin? No dried bananas because they’re dipped in honey? And what’s wrong with honey?
Oh yes… I hadn’t even touched on the plant kingdom – who the vegan community sees fit to ravage for its own sustenance.
Hey, if farm animals reproduce (by any means), doesn’t that make them a renewable energy source?
I liked your comment so much (if we weren’t meant to eat animals, why are so many made of steak?) that i took it for my tagline. Hope you don’t mind. I DO love to burn cowflesh on my grill.
The thing I find ironic is that most of the people I’ve talked to who are concerned with the welfare of animals to the point of activism of one type or another are also champions of “a woman’s right to choose”. Why is it baby humans don’t warrant at least the same concern as baby seals?
@ Gary :: Have fun with it!
@ capo :: Yeah, an excellent point. The more I listen to “them” the more illogic I hear.
Brilliant, I’ve come to be incredibly fond of your posts.
@ Ben ::
Thanks. Keep visiting… in a few weeks when i get a new design up I’ll probably be spouting short bursts of sharp-reason much more frequently.
GARY…..how dare you treat the flesh of dead animals with such blantant disrespect. Burning it on your BBQ grill!!! May your hands rot off at the wrists. It is…”Medium Well” please
“Vegitarian is and old indian word….for lousy hunter. Vegan is the an old indian word for….crazy lousy hunter.” unknown
Loved this post. I know a Vegan or two and you’re right – its all about “feeling good” at its base. Many ways the Veganism in my observation meets a religious impulse for those who otherwise don’t believe in such things.
Personally I don’t care what others choose to eat or not eat – me I’ve got a pretty broad palate when it comes to food and as Anthony Bourdain has stated: “This is anti-curiosity and anti-human” to paraphrase.
Veganism seems to me to be just a religious and more extreme form of leftist environmentalism.
Oh man, that photo is making me soooo hungry!
I’d say with vegans it’s not so much feeling good, but feeling superior.
You know what vegans find leg-slappingly funny (or at the very least, absolutely tiresome)? …Pretty much all the statements that this fine gathering of gentleman have made. None of these arguments are unique, nor are they intelligent. Thankfully vegans are accustomed to this sort of behaviour, thus goes the rules of truth (As per “Earthlings”):
1) Ridicule
2) Violent Opposition
3) Acceptance
You my friends, are having a pretty great time laughing it up with your buddies at the vegan collective’s expense. Pretty status quo. The government and corporations certainly take care of the violent opposition bit, so hopefully you’ll stay out of that arena. Thanks for you thoughts, but I always wonder what you guys are so afraid of? You obviously feel pretty threatened for some reason.
Just because you can’t do everything, doesn’t mean you should do nothing and then find your own apathy amusing.
@moo
Your name sounds tasty… but I’ll try and respond despite the distraction.
Your comments are highly amusing… and bereft of any logical line of reasoning to support your “points” (which is how I know you’re an actual vegan and not just a vegetarian).
I love how you start off with sexism… mix in some random insults… and then finish off with a demi-glaze of condescension. Ha!
Is this typical of all Canadian gals, or just the vegan ones? [ooooh check it out.. some stereotyping of my own!]
And BTW, plants have feelings, too, ya know.
I didn’t take the time to look at all your names, but with names such as, John, Raymond, Ben, Gary, and WarAxe, I couldn’t help but assume that you were all men.
I was working on more of a response, but I know that it’s not worth it.
Not to sound too trite, but you would have done better to respond to one of the many points already put forth with your opposing viewpoint… and then back up your point with some basic reasoning.
You did neither. You did nothing, really. Perhaps the reason you aren’t hearing any “unique” arguments is because you have failed so miserably to address the ones already in front of you.
And has Canada become so desolate that “leg-slappingly funny” and “absolutely tiresome” are that close?
One point that was not mentioned in the above posts is the fact that Vegans and Vegetarians are eating the solution to global warming.
If such a thing exists.
Why are you censoring me?
Nevermind.
@Human/Moo/DON’T DO NOTHING
Thanks for paying attention. I hear a little meat in the diet might help overall awareness… might replace some of that iron.
It’s unfortunate that prejudiced people often feel that vegans are obligated to justify their lifestyle on a continual basis. Most vegans were at one time, an average meat-eater; however upon learning the truth, they decided to change their own habits. The full breadth of veganism is generally unknown; therefore people would rather speculate and poke fun. Sadly this is the reaction present whenever people are confronted with something that is contrary to common opinion.
“It is the fate of every truth to be an object of ridicule when it is first acclaimed.”
– Albert Schweitzer
In the not so distant past, it was acceptable to treat women and children as property, to enslave black citizens, and torture and exterminate Jews. Women were not allowed to vote and gay people were unheard of. Those at the forefront of all of the movements to change these ideologies were/are laughed at, jailed, tortured and even killed.
Just because past history dictates that racism, sexism, ageism, specism, homophobia, etc., etc., are okay, does not mean that society has any right to continue utilizing the very same faulty reasoning in “modern” society. “Might” alone does not make any action right.
The US government reinforces the condemnation of activists by signing into law, the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, which is intended to target animal rights activists and environmental activists. This law penalizes damage and interference to animal enterprises or conspiring or attempting to damage or interfere with an animal enterprise. “Animal enterprises” are concerned about losing any profit due to activists and the information they may distribute. Why is it that no similar laws exist for other industries? The individuals that they call “terrorists” are the sort of “terrorists” that do not kill other humans, but merely attempt to show the truth to citizens while protecting those animals that are being exploited. It is in the public’s best interest for industry transparency to exist and for the public to know the truth. By demonizing activists, the government and corporations attempt to keep their “opponents” quiet, as well as further add to the false assumptions that average individuals make about these “movements”.
Vegan-sexual. This term does not apply to all vegans. I’m certain that there are plenty of vegans who hate this term and think it’s ridiculous. Vegans are aware of how this notion will be perceived, “Look at the stupid vegans! They are so crazy!”
Many vegans are aware of the population problem, just as they are aware of other issues, other than veganism. Adoption or deciding to not have children are viable options for everyone, if they would rather not contribute to the population. I personally never plan on having children.
Contrary to what you stated, vegetables do not have a central nervous system and cannot feel pain, nor can they have “feelings”. All animals are sentient beings, which means that they feel pain just as intensely as we do. A basic overview of biology would show this.
Vegans who decide to go vegan for the right reasons, did not do so primarily because they are insecure, lack religious ideologies or want to “feel good” about themselves. This is not to say that there aren’t some holier-than-thou vegans in the world, however they do not represent all vegans, just as one meat-eater does not represent all meat-eaters.
There are many reasons to go vegan:
1) For Your Health:
The American Dietetic Association and the Dieticians of Canada state that an appropriately planned vegetarian diet is healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. They also confirm that a vegan diet, as well as vegetarian diets are fit for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, and infancy. Vegan diets provide everything humans need to thrive, minus cholesterol, saturated fat and most contaminates. A proper vegan diet avoids and/or protects against many common health problems, such as stroke, heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, auto-immune diseases, and cancer, etc. The American Dietetic Association acknowledges that vegetarians have lower rates of death from heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, prostate and colon cancer, as well as a lower probability of becoming obese. In addition, scientists have found that vegetarians have stronger immune systems and may live, on average, 6 to 10 years longer than the typical meat-eater. If you would like to know more, please see the following links and read the following books:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826028?dopt=Citation
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/07/27/diabetes-vegan.html
http://www.rense.com/general/vega.htm
http://www.gentleworld.org/health/cancer.htm
http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=649d99a8-df3c-4f8b-89a6-376a6d9d2a94
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/on-cancer-and-a-vegetaria_b_46661.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0826/is_n3_v8/ai_12182736/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
-The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long- term by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. and Thomas M. Campbell
-Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss by Joel Fuhrman, M.D.
-Healthy at 100: The Scientifically Proven Secrets of the World’s Healthiest and Long-Lived Peoples by John Robbins
-The Thrive Diet: The Whole Food Way to Lose Weight, Reduce Stress, and Stay Healthy for Life by Brendan Brazier
-The Vegan Diet as Chronic Disease Prevention: Evidence Supporting the New Four Food Groups by Kerrie K. Saunders, Ph.D.
2) For Your Wallet:
Vegan staples such as beans, rice, pasta, nuts, vegetables, soy products, etc., cost much less than animal products. Some of these items can easily be purchased in bulk and kept in storage. If you have the space, you can grow vegetables and fruits yourself. You’ll even save money on future health care and medical costs. In the USA, massive subsidies keep the prices of animal products artificially cheap, because the US government pays for the agribusinesses’ operating costs with tax dollars. Meanwhile, subsidies for vegetable and fruit producers are practically miniscule. The cost of the common hamburger would be $35 if its cost were truly reflected by price. However, the price of meat and dairy never reflects its true cost to the environment and human health. If you would like to learn more, please see the following links:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/GoVegetarianToSaveMoney.aspx?page=1
http://gliving.tv/news/meat-or-health-farm-subsidies-out-of-whack/
http://www.vegsource.com/harris/politics.htm
http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2005/07/07/agribusiness_farming_subsidies_destroy_food_security.htm
3) For the Workers:
Factory farms and slaughterhouses purposefully locate their operations in poorer regions of the USA, in hopes that they will attract the most desperate, poor and uneducated of the nation’s people. According to statistics from the US Department of Labor’s Bureau for Labor Statistics, nearly 1 in 3 slaughterhouse workers experiences an illness or injury every year, compared to 1 in 10 workers of other manufacturing companies. Human Rights Watch has declared that slaughterhouse workers have “the most dangerous factory job in America”. The industry is reluctant to provide its own workers with proper safety protection, training and slower working conditions, etc. It is very common for workers to become injured and once they do, incidents are not recorded and employees will be fired for taking time off, trying to file a health insurance or workers’ compensation claim or attempting to take part in a union. The industry actively focuses on hiring illegal immigrants and minors, both groups being illegal to employ. In addition, the turn-over rate of employees in this industry is very high. It is an extremely unpleasant occupation that forces human beings to kill and dismember animals for the entire length of their shift, every day. It is not uncommon for those employed by this industry to become addicted to drugs or alcohol (even to use them while working), beat their own families in frustration or develop a criminal record. If nothing else, these workers become permanently changed by their circumstances and either desensitize/ harden themselves to cope, or simply break down. If you would like to read more, please see the following link and read the following book:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/usa0105/usa0105.pdf
http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=nature-health/livestock/meat-industry-violates-human-rights.txt
http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/1999a/012299/012299f.htm
- The Jungle by Upton Sinclair
6) For the Animals
More than 27 billion animals are killed for food alone every year in the USA. Citizens can be charged for harming their own pets, but little is done to discipline those that torture animals in slaughterhouses. Routine acts include such things as mutilation, gene manipulation, extreme drug regimes, cramped housing, transport in extreme weather conditions, and gruesome, violent slaughter, etc. Generally any laws that are violated during production go unnoticed, and certainly unrecorded. It is not uncommon for workers to physically beat or sexually abuse animals, as well as to remove limbs and skin, while animals are completely conscious and aware. Just as animals are sentient beings, they are also intelligent and have their own unique methods of survival and communication. As a society that allows specism, human beings justify the killing and torture of hundreds of billions of animals for the sake of human profit and consumption. As per the award winning documentary, Earthlings, humans exploit animals in the following ways:
1)Pets: Dogs, cats, fish, birds, rodents, etc.
2)Food: Meat, dairy, animal fats, derivatives for processed foods such as gelatin, etc.
3)Clothing: Leather, fur, silk, wool, exotic animal skin, etc.
4)Science: Medical and drug testing, military equipment and weapons testing, consumer product testing.
5)Entertainment: Circuses, zoos, rodeos, sport hunting, etc.
This movie can be viewed, in its entirety here:
Earthlings Pt. 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=odee3Jqzf50
Earthlings Pt. 2
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2ls6NCEsVVY
“Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals.” George Orwell, Animal Farm
—
In the end, this issue should not be about Vegans vs. Non-vegans. Reducing the issue to such simplistic terms polarizes and segregates the two groups while creating extreme antagonists on both sides. It is in the best interest of the government and corporations to distract the minds of the populace from the real issues. This assists them in ensuring that individuals are easily manipulated for the sake of their own agendas. While the world is under government and corporate control, human beings do not protest as much if they are occupied with fighting amongst themselves about the concepts of “right” and “wrong”.
At the heart of all people is a concerned citizen that cares about their home, the planet, and the world’s animals and people. One’s actions should reflect this compassion. Do not take anyone’s word as gospel. Research all of the issues on your own, and find your personal conclusion only after doing so.
—
I was unable to include all points into one post. I’m quite certain that you’ll scoff at what I’ve written here, and that is not my concern. It is not my intention to “convert” you, but it would be quite admirable if you would refrain from posting about things you are ignorant to.
@Tanya
The reason why some of your posts were blocked is because Akismet and other blog spam blocking software interprets multiple links within a post as a tell-tale sign of spam. I find it amusing that your comments bear such a resemblance to a processed meat product… don’t you?
Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.
That’s why vegans are mostly the “feelers”, and not as much the “thinkers”.
A balanced diet is the best of any diet. Vegetables provide things that meat and dairy products don’t, and meat and dairy products provide nutrients that vegetables don’t. There exists no better source for muscle-focused amino acids than red meat.
I have no problem with vegetarians… it’s the vegans that are the nuts (get it?). It’s the socio-politically crazed anti-meat wingnuts that bewilder most sane folks. Vegans seems to want to impose their diets on others… seemingly by doing lots of screaming. The rationale that is so weak it must be screamed by activists at rallies is truly inferior.
For a better education on animal rights visit: petakillsanimals.com. Here’s just a tasty morsel off the flank of this site:
Waraxe said it.
I want to set the record straight and state that I am a happy and healthy vegan and I am NOT a PETA supporter. I do not respect their practices, nor do I feel that they speak on my behalf. I find it quite sad that those who like to waste their time “discrediting” veganism bring this organization up all the time. Am I just a “PETA”, and not a vegan? Gee, thanks for clearing that up for me. As for your comment about them, I have nothing to say, because frankly, I am not a spokesperson for them, as I just stated. Notice how I never once mentioned PETA? I don’t even know why you started talking about them.
Unfortunately the world we live in allows for an overabundance of stupidity on the internet. Anyone and their brother can now set up any kind of blog or website they want and spew forth their own ideologies. There is this grand obsession with feeling important because some little voices are crying out with support or denoucing your comments. You are connecting with the world! …Or just the losers that happen upon your website/blog.
Someone stated that I didn’t present anything to back up my opinions so I gave it to them and yet… still not enough. I gave you specific websites and books to read. Notice how I attempted to include UNBIASED information (Books regarding health by acclaimed doctors, UN Report about factory farming’s environmental effect, Human Rights Watch Report about human rights violations, etc.) No PETA sites were included! It’s unfortunate that none of your ilk ever plan on actually objectively looking at the issue. You are closing up your minds without ANY investigation. That sure sounds like what a “thinker” would do, hey? Again, what are you all so afraid of?
In any case, you didn’t really add anything to the conversation. Everything that has been stated on this page are opinions unsupported by facts. I gave ample resources for people to utitilize if they wish to break free from their own ignorance and perhaps, hey do their own research? As I said, don’t take my word for it… Don’t take this “WarAxe” person’s word for it.
You stated that I am a “feeler” because I care. Well so be it. I care about the environment, the world’s people, the world’s animals. All of humankind is capable of caring (I suppose that means you too?) and they should do so freely and proudly. They should not be pushed down in the depths of darkness, by people like yourself just because they want to try their best at being a good person.
You have presented yourself as much the same as most pompous, right-wing Christians. As I said, I never expected much from you and my responses weren’t even necessarily meant for you or your kind. I only hope to present the fact that your opinion is not necessarily important and that there are other things out there that people should investigate before they take your statements at face value.
Go on hating vegans, you lovable ol’ Christian you.
For some reason the following was excluded from my indepth post:
4)For the Environment:
The meat industry uses half of all the water used, for all purposes, in the USA. To produce 1 pound of meat, 2,500 gallons of water is required, however producing 1 pound of wheat requires merely 25 gallons. In addition, livestock production is responsible for climate change, land degradation, deforestation, pollution of water, and loss of biodiversity, among other things. According to a 2006 UN report, livestock animals generate more carbon emissions than all of the world’s transport (aircraft included) combined. Researchers from the University of Chicago have found that the average meat-eater emits 1.5 tonnes more CO2 per year, than a vegan. Animals produce methane gas, a greenhouse gas. Though rarer than carbon dioxide, methane is far more powerful. A single pound of methane is equivalent to approximated 50 pounds of carbon dioxide. The production of animals for their flesh and secretions is also very energy inefficient, when you consider all of the fossil fuels required throughout production. When consuming plants directly, rather than cycling them through animals, energy is conserved. The amount of food energy per fossil energy expended is 34.5% in ideal conditions, while the least energy efficient of plant production is 328%. You could literally feed 32 vegans, for the amount of resources it takes to feed a meat/dairy eater. Meat eaters have 24 times the environmental impact of a vegan. If you would like to know more, please see the following links:
http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm
http://ucsusa.org/food_and_environment/sustainable_food/cafos-uncovered.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/74605/?page=entire
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-few-more-inconvenient-_b_40261.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/vegetarian-is-the-new-pri_b_39014.html
http://www.alternet.org/environment/89015/
5)For Our Society:
Hundreds of millions of dollars are given to the US government from agribusinesses; in an effort to ensure that laws meant to protect consumers, animals and the environment do not pass. Because of government negligence, factory farms pollute and destroy local communities, spreading contamination and illness, and distribute inferior products to consumers that contain feces, poisons and diseases. When considering the world as a whole, it is clear that the current situation can be reduced simply to “taking the poor man’s grain to feed the rich man’s cow”. One of the largest contributing factors to starvation in poorer countries is animal production, because land is used to allow for grazing or to produce grain for animals rather than for human consumption. There is enough food in the world to feed us all, but mostly due to animal production, it is inefficiently used and distributed unequally. Animal production is energy inefficient and is also greatly reliant on an abundance of fossil fuels. Current production levels could not be sustained if there was a decline in oil availability. It’s obvious that most wars are fought over resources, fossil fuels in particular. Conserving energy by not eating meat and dairy would greatly reduce the need to conquer other countries for their oil.
-Making a Killing: The Political Economy of Animal Rights by Bob Torres
-The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World by John Robbins and Dean Ornish M.D.
-The World Peace Diet: Eating for Spiritual Health and Social Harmony by Will Tuttle, Ph.D.
-Mad Cowboy: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won’t Eat Meat by Howard F. Lyman
-Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser
http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2005/07/07/agribusiness_farming_subsidies_destroy_food_security.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/dec/24/christmas.famine
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0826/is_n3_v8/ai_12182736/pg_2?tag=artBody;col1
http://cultureandanimals.org/animalrights.htm
I am sincerly sorry for the mess. I would have certainly liked being able to post it all at once in it’s complete form.
I just came across this article on Google.
I’d just like to remind you all that there are flaws in all your arguments. Everyone thinks that they alone are correct, and arguing about things that are a matter of opinion is pointless. Vegans think they are doing right, and meat eaters think that they are doing right, too.
It frustrates me though, that the people who are criticising vegans seem to put vegans into a category of their own, as if supporting animal rights automatically makes them leftist pro-choice yuppies or something.
It’s just a lifestyle choice, and most vegans don’t judge everyone else. It’s what they want to do, so why don’t you let them in peace?
@Amy
You are wrong when you say that most vegans don’t judge everyone else. Perhaps most “vegetarians” don’t judge everyone else… but when you make the leap to “vegan” there seems to be an entire sub-culture to it — filled with political action and left-leaning agendas. Don’t think so? Then you haven’t been to many vegan websites… nor spoken with many vegans.
In fact… you probably skipped over the crazy rant in the comments here regarding the human specism (whatever that’s supposed to mean — I guess it means I think it’s okay to step on ants).
On a side note I noticed the following in your notes about yourself “Something important you should know about me is that I am a Christ-follower… that is, I attempt in my pathetic-ness to be like Christ.” I really do not find your prejudice against vegans to be very “Christ-like” You may want to rethink your belief system and wheter or not it is working. I don’t think Jesus would be very happy with you.
Explain… if you
darecan.Is that a threat? Once again, not very Christ-like. I really don’t think Jesus would be bashing peoples beliefs, telling them they are crazy and should kill themselves, or threatening them over the internet. I am not an expert on the Bible, but isn’t pride one of the seven deadly sins? Thinking you are better than an entire group of people definitly falls into that category.
Maybe you are threatening me because you feel threatened by me?
“God is stern in dealing with the arrogant, but to the humble He shows kindness.” – Proverbs 3:34
Of course… your response still lacked any line of reasoning to back up any of your assertions. At this point even eating meat probably won’t help you.
And with regard to “telling people to kill themselves”… I am telling people that they should be consistent and cogent in their thinking and principles… and radical vegan beliefs are in conflict with their very own existence.
You should re-read everything I’ve written three times… and meditate on it with a full stomach of bacon-wrapped filet minion… and you’ll be of a better mind to actually address what I’m really saying about who’s a wacko and who is not.
I was wondering why you started your ranting with “On a side note…” until I saw that there was a LOOoonngg missive pending comment moderation. I will post it here, now… this is really rich:
WOW can anyone say APATHY!!!?! This article is ignorant. I am a vegetarian going on vegan but I dont put people who eat meat down so whats wrong with me staying away from putting dead animals in my mouth? People always talk sh*t to me about being vegetarian, why are they so defensive? Why do meat eaters talk soooo much crap. If they didnt care about the animals theyre eating like they say they dont, then why are they writing stuff like this? Obviously they care. Its funny to think about…
i love meat. ribs, steak yum
.
Dear Rachel;
It is so obvious from your post that you don’t have a clue about what Jesus would or would not do. Even a cursory reading of the four gospels (for the Biblically challenged that would be the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) would reveal that Jesus railed against the spiritual and religious leaders of His day challenging them constantly about their beliefs and traditions. He was actually quite the radical — and was definitely a meat eater. One of His sayings was, and I paraphrase, that is is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out” Make your arguments for your vegan choice, but leave your ignorant references to Jesus out of it. And by the way, as War Axe’s mother, I am very proud of his commitment to being a Christ-follower. It is a journey, Rachel, not a destination. I challenge you to read the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, found in the New Testament), and then post again. I’d like to read your comments then.
Both partiies have good very points. Now all You need is a judge to declare the final victor. The Creator,The ONE and only. please visit the following link.
)
http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/mcqnm6.htm
Hindu scriptures give permission to have non-vegetarian food
There are many Hindus who are strictly vegetarian. They think it is against their religion to consume non-vegetarian food. But the true fact is that the Hindu scriptures permit a person to have meat. The scriptures mention Hindu sages and saints consuming non-vegetarian food.
It is mentioned in Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus, in chapter 5 verse 30
“The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad, even if he does it day after day, for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater.”
Again next verse of Manu Smruti, that is, chapter 5 verse 31 says
“Eating meat is right for the sacrifice, this is traditionally known as a rule of the gods.”
Further in Manu Smruti chapter 5 verse 39 and 40 says
“God himself created sacrificial animals for sacrifice, …., therefore killing in a sacrifice is not killing.”
Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88 narrates the discussion between Dharmaraj Yudhishthira and Pitamah Bhishma about what food one should offer to Pitris (ancestors) during the Shraddha (ceremony of dead) to keep them satisfied. Paragraph reads as follows:
“Yudhishthira said, “O thou of great puissance, tell me what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitiris (dead ancestors), become inexhaustible! What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?”
“Bhishma said, “Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barely and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddhas, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the mutton they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remaingratified for eight months, and with that obtained from the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months, With the meat of the bufffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said , lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.
So but natural if you want to keep your ancestors satisfied forever, you should serve them the meat of red goat.
@ Your Mother… And everyone else for that matter.
Being a Vegan myself and having done many years of research on the origins of human evolution (Oops, did I say that word?), and it’s my conclusion, and the conclusion of many others that humans only became omnivores out of necessity and not out of instinct.
As for the bible dictating wether or not we should be meat eaters, at the time PEOPLE wrote it, it was generally accepted in society to eat meat and drink milk in many parts of the world. The human race is hundreds of thousands if not millions of years old, and it’s only been in the last ten thousand years that people have decided to use animals for their meats and byproducts.
Also, ponder this. In nature, animals hunt their prey and eat them while they are still warm. Humans raise them from birth, pump them full of hormones (optional), feed them hundreds of pounds of grains, rob them of their byproducts and then kill them so we can freeze them, then cut them into different cuts and take them home to cook them and put tasty spices on them…
Any nutrient you can find in meat and milk you can most certainly find in vegetables. Contrary to popular belief that includes protien and vitamin b12.
People who say that vegans don’t care about the animals killed in harvesting are wrong. If you are on a bus that hits a person, that’s one thing. But if you are a prison guard that raises and slaughters it’s prisoners, that’s another.
All of our humanly systems are even geared towards that of a herbovore. It’s unfortunate that the meat and milk companies back the US politicians with millions of dollars to say “Milk is calcium, meat is protien,” because it’s simply un-natural and untrue…
Did you know? If we eliminated the meat industry, it would save us more Co2 than if we completley modernized all our forms of transportation?
@Dave
Umm… according to natural selection survival is instinctual and necessities are needed to survive. How many “years of research” could you have possibly done?
Don’t think so. Humans are homo sapiens sapiens… not homo erectus or any of the others. Homo sapiens sapiens haven’t been around very long… as evidenced by the fossil record.
A half-truth (among many). Nobody can get sufficient quantities and varieties of protein purely through the consumption of raw vegetables. You would actually fill up on the raw veggies much fater than you could intake protein.
However, you could PROCESS the vegetables. I know how much you self-identified healthy types LOVE your processed foods. So to get enough protein you’d have to buy some super-un-naturally-processed-soy-whey-whatever at the fake natural foods store. Oh, and no vegetable gives as much of the blend of muscle-building amino acids as does a little red meat.
…which tells me that driving less and buying smaller, hybrid vehicles is pointlessly trivial with regard to global warming. Although, I had a feeling anyway.
every1 has an oppinion, you should just stop critisizing someone else’s critizism. it just shows that you dont care for them yourselves otherwise you would defend them not your own reputaion.(ppl put others down before the stand up for what they belive in)
@ Everyone criticizing the people arguing over this matter… don’t. Haha, this debate was EXTREMELY fun to read. Im not going to share my opinion purely because I don’t feel like having to add much more than this comment. Continue…
I’m just interested why WarAxe did not respond to “n/a”’s post? Not even a little bit. Is it because all of n/a’s sources come from non-biased parties? Is it because it kind of all makes sense, and there’s nothing WarAxe can really say to disprove it?
Honestly, n/a provided a whole slurry of information, from non-biased sources, for WarAxe, and anyone else out there judging people without reading all the information that is available to them. n/a makes the best point of all when he/she says: “GO OUT AND READ AND INFORM YOURSELF AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS.”
Despite it’s messiness, n/a’s post(s) never ever become preachy. Never once was there mention of PETA, animal-rights, death to meat-eaters, etc. Never once was he/she condescending to the fact that you eat meat. Yes, there were condescending comments regarding your ignorance and judgement, but who out there loves ignorance? Anyway, there was absolutely no confrontational tone with n/a’s posts, and because of that, there was no response from WarAxe. This guy seems to only want to respond to anger and disbelief from the vegan community, which is terrible. That leaves no room for discussion, only angry arguments, so let’s not waste any more time fueling his fire.
Information and knowledge is available to everyone nowadays. I am just confused at why anyone would choose to be ignofant when starting an open discussion. Facts should be known from both sides. Like n/a said, everyone should make their own decisions, but if you choose to not read information from BOTH parties before doing so, you are ignorance realized.
wow, another advocate of animal cruelty who hasn’t done is research.
please spare us your ignorance.
we simply speak out for those without a voice.
i’m sure a lot of what we are trying to convey is beyond your understanding (you seem to be quite obtuse) but being belligerent about your ignorance doesn’t make you look ‘cool’ or ‘intelligent’. it makes you look like a moron.
-a.
“UNTIL EVERY CAGE IS EMPTY”
@atomicactivist
Thanks for the birthday laugh… although it looked like you had to stretch a little bit to put today’s vocab word du jour in there. And I look less moronic than some when I use proper grammar, spelling, and capitalization.
You can stop reading now – but for anyone’s else’s benefit I’m actually very much AGAINST animal cruelty. In many respects I put people who abuse higher order animals (dogs, cats, etc.) in line with those who abuse women, the disabled, the elderly, and the young (and unborn).
I wonder…….
If so many people drop vegans into the leftist party, then why are they not waiting for evolution to kick in? I mean if we as humans are abusing our nature why hasn’t nature abused us back?
And for the Christian Vegans….(that was perplexing to type) God created all things. Adam and Eve were immortal, the animal kingdom was not created as such. So very clearly they are not on the same value system. So stop using that argument.
Animal cruelty is horrific. Killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful is not.
simple.
killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful IS animal cruelty. The ends do not justify the means. An animal killed to make a jacket and a steak still feels the same pain as an animal killed for and thrown in a ditch.
@ Jack
I said
“Animal cruelty is horrific. Killing an animal for nourishment and utilizing all of its being for something useful is not.”
I did not imply that it is or is not animal cruelty to kill an animal for nourishment. I said it is not horrific. Killing an animal and throwing it in a ditch for the no reason is pretty sick and twisted. But when it comes to food there is this thing called the FOOD CHAIN.. or the circle of life. These are very simple ideologies that create meat eaters everyday.
Please enjoy your serving of vegetables and I will enjoy mine with a piece of meat next to them. And I will thank my authority for providing me the meal.
@simple
no, you did not imply that killing an animal for nourishment was animal cruelty. I did, and it is.
How can you say that killing an animal and throwing it in a ditch is “sick and twisted” but killing one and eating it is great.
the circle of life? you’ve been watching too much Lion King my friend. You should be more worried about the circle of arteriosclerosis, because it’s gonna come back and bit you in your arteries.
also. Jesus didn’t actually exist so lets just leave him out of it.
@jack
You bring poor arguments to the table (pardon the pun). Perhaps a lack of red meat has dulled your logic? You fail to recognize any difference between killing a food animal “quickly”, and torturing it to death. Since I think this a very obvious distinction I’m not sure what point there would be trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. No offense.
i don’t believe i ever used the word torture. i said;
“An animal killed to make a jacket and a steak still feels the same pain as an animal killed for [nothing] and thrown in a ditch.”
I see no distinction between killing an animal for food and killing an animal for nor reason, in terms of the suffering caused. In fact i think killing an animal for food IS killing an animal for no reason since it is wholly unnecessary.
So many people have posted great arguments to your viewpoint but time and time again you refuse to acknowledge them.
The fact is, eating animals causes suffering. I don’t know any one who would disagree with that statement. If you are happy accepting the fact that you cause suffering by eating animals then that is your decision to make, no one elses.
Also, i see you believe in god. As i think there is a very obvious distinction between reality and fairy tales which you have failed to identify, you are correct in saying that there would be no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation.
Believing in a higher power is faith, believing that we just happened to crawl out of primordial soup is pathetic.
On the alternate side of that spectrum I can certainly respect the scientific approach in that there is very little HARD evidence other than evolution. What baffles me is that evolutionists can not prove the BEGINNING themselves. They can show connections through time but never a starting point it is all theories with which they have FAITH in.
Now that everybody across the board has been oversimplified down to FAITH for Jacks benefit of an intelligent conversation.
@Jack
I recently moved from Colorado, just before I did there was a lot of talk about the Rocky Mountain National Park. There was an obscene Elk population there. They had been protected for a number of years and because of that disease had begun to infiltrate the herds.
You bet your a%$ hunters across the mid-west started foaming at the mouth. What I am about to say came from a radio show in Denver, I have no substantial proof of this plan; According to *some government agency* the best route of action was to quarantine a safe number of animals to be killed with the carcasses burned in a ditch. I just looked up an article and found that they used qualified sharp shooters.
My point in this is we are a higher form of species. We have the tools and ability to kill animals for food. So in principal we should be carnivores. Now I can certainly take the other side and see that stuffing chickens in cages and mistreating any animal for the purpose of profit is wrong. And every person of any belief should fight to eliminate cruelty to animals.
You said that “eating animals causes suffering” and I must disagree with you. Many other factors cause suffering i.e.; greed, over-population, under-population, ignorance, hate. Eating meat is a natural process, the same as eating vegetables. We need a healthy balance of all to survive.
Too much of anything is a hazard to your health. To much soy causes unhealthy levels of estrogen in the body… to much meat clogs arteries blah blah e.t.c…..
“While many people feel that these arguments are hard to dispute, others claim that such research is bogus or inaccurate. And then there are those who confirm the validity of these environmental statistics, but deem such facts to be insignificant – how could not eating dairy and eggs save our planet?”
http://www.starchefs.com/features/food_debates/html/issue_01.shtml
Jack you make a great point; it all comes down to choice. And I choose to have a balanced diet, with little over indulgence. So here is to my healthy dose of B12 and here’s to your wheat grass. ~~~Cheers~~~
I just ate the rarest steak in the world.. and boy was it good!;)
I would like to say one serious thing. I like how the people like jack and rachel bring up WarAxe’s beliefs. Are you guys really that dumb, that you have to target something so “trivial” to you?
I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel have to target WarAxes beliefs. I mean are you that dumb that you can’t come up with a valid point so you target something that’s apparently “trivial” to you?
I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel target WarAxes beliefs.. Are you guys really that dumb that you can’t stick to the topic about why vegans are retarded, but instead talk of something that’s “trivial” to you? Sounds like your missing some much needed nutrients from good ‘ole meet;)
I don’t understand why Jack and Rachel target WarAxes beliefs.. Are you guys really that dumb that you can’t stick to the topic about why vegans are retarded, but instead talk of something that’s “trivial” to you? Sounds like your missing some much needed nutrients from good ‘ole meat;)
ok so sorry about the multiple post, it wasn’t posting.. whoops!! look like I also need more meat….
sorry.. I kept forgetting what I said to which is why they all vary.. haha woOt for meat!
@jack
I believe you… I believe that you are sufficiently cloistered inside your own world as to not know “any one” who’d disagree that eating animals causes suffering. You are typical… all emotion and no common sense. Really.
@simple, i dont eat strange foods like wheatgrass. and my B12 levels are perfectly fine, because i am Australian and eat vegemite.
@waraxe, are you telling me that you believe you can eat animals without causing them to suffer? I would like to know how, because this is the only objection I have to eating animals, and meat tastes good.
Death does not equal suffering.
@T.J. Mock
I blocked jack’s latest response… but he basically said “who mentioned death?”, and then called us all idiots.
He said before “The fact is, eating animals causes suffering.”
Then you said “Death does not equal suffering.”
Then he just says “who mentioned death?”. Apparently his puny little meat-starved brain couldn’t figure out that animals are dead when humans eat them. Maybe he got confused with the suffering gazelles being eaten alive on those nature shows.
i guess.
Maybe he can muster a coherent response that we can tear apart later.
i like my steak still moo-ing… so yeah they suffer to get in my mouth.. ha
I completely agree I love meat and as long as the animal has been raised and killed in a humane way then I have no problem with what is just the food chain. Plus have you ever seen anything but a skinny vegan? I don’t think it’s a healthy diet I know lots of vegetarians who are always sick because they don’t seem to get the right nutrients they need.
Raising a cow needs water and grains, which would feed 20 people. Grains is only that much, and water is even less available in the world. So by throwing on the BBQ yummy, still warm and twitching animals, who apparently enjoy being hacked alive for your pleasure, (I bet I know where your neighborhood cats are) you are actually keeping people starving hungry, and killing them. Who cares, right?
Being at the top of the food chain means eating weaker, poorer people in far away countries, too, these days. Now, there’s a good Christian.
@Buddy Henzig
You’re a real winner. Cows eat grasses and grain that aren’t intended for human consumption. Farms produce food… not consume it… otherwise they wouldn’t be farms and they wouldn’t make a profit. Your logic is killing the poor people… how about that?
SO,you M.Es think animal cruelty is wrong huh?
You think that it is wrong to kill a sweet,cute,cuddly,innocent little puppy or kitten or bunny,but when it comes to ugly,stupid, filthy farm animals…….
Who cares that 30 chickens are crammed into a cage barely big enough for 10 and sit there their entire 6 month long lives,sitting in their own crap,unable to stand up or stretch their wings?
Who cares that a sow has to live her entire 5 year long life in a cage that is only as wide and long as her own body.That she eats slop that also has used syringes and plastic bags in it.That her joints weaken so that eventually she can no longer stand and has to lie down in her own crap and urine just feeding piglets until she dies from starvation,exhaustion and/or disease?
Who cares that for every one Deer that is killed by a hunter,20 more have been wounded and left to die a slow,painful death?
Who cares that a cow is forced to get pregnant over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again without rest until she dies,just like the sows,so you can have your milk (Yes,kiddies,a cows does NOT just magically have milk,it has to be pregnant to keep the supply going).
Please correct me if I am wrong in thinking that the above is an accurate example of how M.Es see things.
I mean,honestly,HOW can you say that you are against animal cruelty?
You all keep saying how we hate meat eaters.We do NOT.We hate what these animals have to go through.
PS I am NOT Vegan.I am Fruitarian.
This is a pretty intense debate and I would like to contribute my 5 cents. I have recently turned to vegetarianism and with all the information available today, it seems to be a pretty easy shift. There are many vitamin/mineral dense and high calorie vegetarian foods one can indulge that give you a feeling of satiety like coconuts, dates, cashew, peanuts, mangoes, moringa pods, sesame, chick peas, lentils, beans to name a few. Add to this some salads and some grain dish like rice or wheat should make for a wholesome vegetarian fare.
However, I am not a true vegan because I consume ghee which is prepared from raw butter. But this is my only concession to animal foods. I do not feel the need for anything else.
After about 6 months into this diet I have observed that:
My hunger is much reduced. I never get the gnawing hunger that I used to get on meat diet. I can space my meals and eat at any convenient time.
Strength is improved. The same exercises I performed on my previous diet like skipping, sit-ups, pull-ups, chin-ups, long walks, pumping iron, can be done with much ease and not getting very tired.
Another thing I should mention is that before we enter the meat versus veg diet we should consider the food versus non-food diet. I say this because the greatest benefit to my health was cutting out of non-foods like refined/hydrogenated vegetable oils, processed salt, refined flour, white sugar, colas, and junk foods. I only use sea salt and coconut oil/ghee for cooking.
If you choose to no longer eat meat and you live longer than other meat-eaters congrats! This article is based on vegansexuals and the idea that vegans are cutting themselves off from others due to their beliefs. If you do not want to cause harm or any other intrusion on the “animal kingdom” than kill yourself, you will do us and the animal kingdom a huge favor..
For the rest of the sane population (even those who are not meat eaters) keep up the good work… maybe in 5,000 years it will be very evident which is the preferred method of diet.
oh and @Ururu
It is very illegal to feed swine refuse and garbage in this country. If you find a farm that, oh wait how did you put it; “sow has to live her entire 5 year long life in a cage that is only as wide and long as her own body.That she eats slop that also has used syringes and plastic bags in it.”
If you find that farm you should sue… you will win a lot of money and you can support your crazy belief systems.
Simple
I agree that this concept of vegansexual exclusivity is a bit extreme. But as far as vegetarianism goes, you should try it!! I was a meatarian just like you and let me tell you, I know my pork. We used to get the best cut of wild boar and a desi breed of pig that will make your farmed pork tasteless in comparison.
Anyway, I have stepped out of my comfort zone and that is why I can say what I said in my earlier post.
All I am saying is that if you too decide to step out of your comfort zone and give this vegetarianism thing a try, eat wholesome foods and NOT vegeburgers and soya this and that. Have lot of whole fruit, leafy salads, nuts, seeds, whole grain cereal. Avoid refined oils and cook with coconut oil or butter as these are more heat tolerant than unsaturated oils.
i’m gonna stick to my balanced diet. meat, vegetable, diary, and fruits included.
Kieran
I eat tons of fruit… I am actually addicted to blending.. I mix different natural fruits to concoct new flavors.. I also eat greens on a regular basis… A snack for me is an avocado, raw and natural (you get 5 for a dollar out of season in my town).. I just also enjoy meat. I believe in this world my consumption of an animal is very far down on the list of other perverse and unnatural things I could be doing.
Someday when I have the motivation I may decide to switch, I cannot imagine why!? But hey, I am open to the possibility of it.
YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND IGNORANT! If you actually did some research for yourself, you might find that vegan is the healthiest diet to follow… I dont give a crap what you eat, and i dont judge you for it at all, but when you start yapping and judging vegans then of course we get defensive. You complete udder morons! Do some research for yourself instead of sitting on your lazy fat ass and just believing everything you hear! dirtbags,
@Monkey
Your lack of iron and other nutrients has severely hampered your mood, your reasoning and your vocabulary (and your punctuation and spelling and grammar). I recommend a 12 oz filet wrapped in bacon… medium rare, of course. Do this every day for a month (okay… it doesn’t have to be “filet” every day, that would get expensive) and then return here. I guarantee you’ll be a new little monkey.
Like wow..many seventh day adventist are vegetarian and probably like a few vegans thrown in…I am a seventh day adventist that eat meat but i follow the bible and dont eat the meat that are forbidden..Like pork, lobster and scavengers…so no bacon wrapped filet mignon for me..though i can eat filet mignon..The fact that you call your self a christ follower is laughable…i mean if you READ your bible..The people didnt start eating meat till they started to sin..and when they started to eat unclean meat..GOD providen the right meats to eat…
Only because I enjoyed this whole conversation. Personally I’m not a big meat eater but have been told (Doctor’s order’s) that I need more red meat in my diet; Therefore, I have to eat meat. A person’s religious belief’s shouldn’t even have been brought up in this topic, that’s just people searching for an argument without actually having anything intelligent to argue about. You want to be a ‘vegan’ that’s fine, but leave all the ‘animal cruelty’ stuff out of it. Where I’m from it’s more expensive to be a vegan and I’m not about to go broke to save a few cows.
@waraxe- Not all of us Canadian girl’s are as you perceive. Most of us Albertans like our Grade A Alberta Beef!
@OilCountryGirl – That’s great to hear!
Where’s the best place to get hold of some good Alberta beef?
@WarAxe – Probably from someone involved in 4H, since they usually have the best raised beef (oohh, this should set some people off!) otherwise I find IGA/Sobey’s to have the best quality.
hahahahahahahaha… This is about the dumbest thing I’ve read. …Ever.
I’m vegan and I’ve never heard of “vegansexuals” thus they don’t represent most vegans, and most certainly not me.
There is nothing wrong with me. Thus, there is nothing wrong with vegans. To successfully argue that there is something wrong with all vegans, as in your question, “…what the heck is wrong with vegans,” you’ll have to prove some quality exists amongst all vegans which is, by some reasonable logic, “wrong.” I’m perfectly fine and healthy, yada, yada, yada. Ergo, this article bites it. …Big time.
And, for the record, there isn’t a darn thing “natural” about domestication, captivity, needless cruelty, injected antibiotics and hormones, factory farming, and on and on. You can’t use both the “it’s natural to eat meat argument” and refer to the-crimes-against-nature-that-are domesticated animals. It’s faulty logic.
Hey, that’s my two (vegan) cents…for what it’s worth.
Do you all really have that much free-time in your hands to be ranting,b i t c hing, and complaining about vegans? Really?
Obviously, you all feel so threatened by them. So insecure about yourselves, you wish you had as much will-power as a vegan. Let’s be honest now.
And don’t include god or whatever into this, he’s a mythological creature anyways..
i am a not a vegan nor a vegetarian, i like meat a lot and im not all that consciencious of where it comes from. i do however enjoy reason, logic and linguistics and yours, waraxe, are inferior. firstly, clint harris, it’s ol’ not ‘ole. the apostrophe replaces words that have been left out.
i read through the conversation between waraxe and n/a and and firstly i applaud n/a on the depth of research. waraxe, you seem to have based everything you have said on very general, opinion-based speculations, as well as taking very trivial faults of n/a and blowing them up to seem important. for example, n/a provided many reference sites to back up their opinion, you made fun of this in order to somehow devalidify the arguments themselves. “Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.” this is all the space you devoted to addressing what n/a wrote. this is not specific, it has no examples, and it has no logic behind it. these, sir, are accusations. opinion based accusations. this is an open forum for argument, not a trial, so please argue.
i would like to thank amy for addressing your profiling of vegans in general. take another group of people that can be easily labeled, how about “white christian males above the age of 35″. that’s you. do you think that every single man in that group is exactly what you are? i am a white christian male below 35 (the age is trivial so dont argue that), and i am a liberal. i dont know much about you in person so that’s a bit difficult to argue. but back to the point of your general profiling. the vegans that would create websites or speak out about their beliefs are most likely on the more radical side of veganity, while there are many vegans who lead normal, everyday lives without meat.
now to your original argument. your main point against vegans is that humans are “the antithesis of environmentally friendly” and therefore it is ok for us to ravage our environments. if this argument were used against your mother (your actual mother, not the poster) i am willing to bet she would respond similarly to “if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you?” your line of thinking is backwards at best. it has been shown through many publications and scientific forays that we are destroying the world in which we live. and without a world, there is no us. this fact is now even being taught in many high schools. i would love to go on, but i am busy and have procrastinated my work long enough(dont argue that either, its pointless).
farewell
i am not a vegan nor a vegetarian, i like meat a lot and im not all that consciencious of where it comes from. i do however enjoy reason, logic and linguistics and yours, waraxe, are inferior. firstly, clint harris, it’s ol’ not ‘ole. the apostrophe replaces letters that have been left out.(dont try the superiority angle, its just too obvious of a character assault).
i read through the conversation between waraxe and n/a and and firstly i applaud n/a on the depth of research. waraxe, you seem to have based everything you have said on very general, opinion-based speculations, as well as taking very trivial faults of n/a and blowing them up to seem important. for example, n/a provided many reference sites to back up their opinion, you made fun of this in order to somehow devalidify the arguments themselves. “Most of your points are, to use your term, not new. They are partly true, but that’s very different from wholly true. The trouble with many vegan arguments is that you are in love with your end conclusions… despite how you got there… so you kinda back-strapolate your logic to fit the end you want to reach. The result is shoddy rationale… but since you “feel” it’s the truth you accept the dubious route you took to get there.” this is all the space you devoted to addressing what n/a wrote. this is not specific, it has no examples, and it has no logic behind it. these, sir, are accusations. opinion based accusations. this is an open forum for argument, not a trial, so please argue.
i would like to thank amy for addressing your profiling of vegans in general. take another group of people that can be easily labeled, how about “white christian males above the age of 35″. that’s you. do you think that every single man in that group is exactly what you are? i am a white christian male below 35 (the age is trivial so dont argue that), and i am a liberal. i dont know much about you in person so that’s a bit difficult to argue. but back to the point of your general profiling. the vegans that would create websites or speak out about their beliefs are most likely on the more radical side of veganity, while there are many vegans who lead normal, everyday lives without meat.
now to your original argument. your main point against vegans is that humans are “the antithesis of environmentally friendly” and therefore it is ok for us to ravage our environments. if this argument were used against your mother (your actual mother, not the poster) i am willing to bet she would respond similarly to “if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you?” your line of thinking is backwards at best. it has been shown through many publications and scientific forays that we are destroying the world in which we live. and without a world, there is no us. this fact is now even being taught in many high schools. i would love to go on, but i am busy and have procrastinated my work long enough. this is my real email. try it. and if you erase this again, i will keep posting it.
i would also like to point out that you started this article to criticize the beliefs of a large group of people, and judging by your responses it seems that you expected to recieve no backlash. i do not think the vegans are right and i do not think you are right. i think each person should live the way they would like without being criticized by conservatives. each time someone reacts with anger to your post you pass them off with patronizing satire and i must say, in the simplest terms: DUDE, THAT SHIT’S WEAK. by the way, Jody tore your ass up. maybe you shouldnt criticize people based on loose hearsay. ya think?
I do not hate vegans or vegetarians. However I am tired of Vegans bashing the way I eat. You get so upset if we are to say anything about the way we eat, but you have to preach to us about the way we eat. It’s as bad as atheists, and their constant crusade to be prejudice against Christianity. Unfortunately all the people I know who are vegan are also atheist. They sit there preaching their vegan religion while saying they have no religion.