Comments on: Art, Talent, and the Tyranny of the Subjective http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/ An onslaught of expository excellence covering web design and development, politics and current events, faith and religion, guitar and music, programming... oh, and anything else. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:20:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: John3Sobieski http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-102322 John3Sobieski Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:47:40 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-102322 I like a Canadian comedy show that actually has humor. In it a man, basically the Canadian version of a rednecked hillbilly, said quite correctly about art the tomatoe soup can in particular, "If I can do it, it's not art." Seeing as how I have no drawing or painting talents or inclinations, I have to hold this true. When you go into literature arts, I'm a bit better, but thats a different thing. I like a Canadian comedy show that actually has humor. In it a man, basically the Canadian version of a rednecked hillbilly, said quite correctly about art the tomatoe soup can in particular, “If I can do it, it’s not art.” Seeing as how I have no drawing or painting talents or inclinations, I have to hold this true. When you go into literature arts, I’m a bit better, but thats a different thing.

]]> By: WarAxe http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-454 WarAxe Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:38:14 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-454 >>> <em>When someone says it’s art, it’s art</em> Hence the tyranny. :-) >>> <em>Whether or not it’s good art is a little more objective, because you can quantify that a bit (i.e., how many people like it, is it aesthetically pleasing, etc.), but by its very nature, it’s pretty darn subjective.</em> Agreed. :-) Hey, that sounds like a cool book! I'll check it out. Between Terra Nova and visiting the MoMA I think my creative juices are starting to flow again. >>> When someone says it’s art, it’s art

Hence the tyranny. :-)

>>> Whether or not it’s good art is a little more objective, because you can quantify that a bit (i.e., how many people like it, is it aesthetically pleasing, etc.), but by its very nature, it’s pretty darn subjective.

Agreed. :-)

Hey, that sounds like a cool book! I’ll check it out. Between Terra Nova and visiting the MoMA I think my creative juices are starting to flow again.

]]> By: alissa http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-453 alissa Fri, 03 Feb 2006 04:31:30 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-453 Speaking of: you would appreciate this book that we're working through at <a href="http://www.iamny.org" rel="nofollow">IAM</a> on Wednesday mornings: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1903689139/ref=sr_11_1/002-2631799-2946466?%5Fencoding=UTF8" rel="nofollow">A Profound Weakness: Christians & Kitsch</a>, by Betty Spackman. It's a bit on the pricey side but it's a gorgeous, big book with glossy pages. And it's a great book for Christians who "do art" and those who have been in the Christian subculture. I think you'd really get a lot out of it. She's going to be at the IAM conference later this month, too. Speaking of: you would appreciate this book that we’re working through at IAM on Wednesday mornings:

A Profound Weakness: Christians & Kitsch, by Betty Spackman. It’s a bit on the pricey side but it’s a gorgeous, big book with glossy pages. And it’s a great book for Christians who “do art” and those who have been in the Christian subculture. I think you’d really get a lot out of it.

She’s going to be at the IAM conference later this month, too.

]]> By: alissa http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-452 alissa Fri, 03 Feb 2006 04:28:13 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-452 Took an art class that basically concluded with saying that "art" <i>is</i>, indeed, subjective. When someone says it's art, it's art . . . and that's the only way we can explain it. Art is something someone does to express something subjective (writing is art, under this definition, as well as music or painting or sculpture or film or photography). Even if their subjective statement is their belief in absurdity. Whether or not it's <i>good</i> art is a little more objective, because you can quantify that a bit (i.e., how many people like it, is it aesthetically pleasing, etc.), but by its very nature, it's pretty darn subjective. Took an art class that basically concluded with saying that “art” is, indeed, subjective. When someone says it’s art, it’s art . . . and that’s the only way we can explain it. Art is something someone does to express something subjective (writing is art, under this definition, as well as music or painting or sculpture or film or photography). Even if their subjective statement is their belief in absurdity.

Whether or not it’s good art is a little more objective, because you can quantify that a bit (i.e., how many people like it, is it aesthetically pleasing, etc.), but by its very nature, it’s pretty darn subjective.

]]> By: WarAxe http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-449 WarAxe Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:57:44 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-449 Hmm... I actually got thinking about this. Based totally upon subjective artistic merit anyone could at any time say anything was art... even though I would suggest that not everything can be art, regardless of the observer's sentiments... unless we reduce art to something so obscurely and intangibly ethereal that Mozart becomes on par with squeeky brakes as long as some bum thinks it is so. Or unless we reduce art to an emotional response... but even then the Mona Lisa might cease to be a work of art unless someone was, at a given point in time, emoting appreciation for her. Art is such a crazy topic, anyway... there is a huge Wikipedia article on it and it's even marked as having its neutrality in dispute. 8-O I can remember a Folsom Library "art" video of someone throwing up on a statue of the virgin Mary. That does not possess "greater than subjective artistic merit".... that one I know for sure. :-) Hmm… I actually got thinking about this. Based totally upon subjective artistic merit anyone could at any time say anything was art… even though I would suggest that not everything can be art, regardless of the observer’s sentiments… unless we reduce art to something so obscurely and intangibly ethereal that Mozart becomes on par with squeeky brakes as long as some bum thinks it is so. Or unless we reduce art to an emotional response… but even then the Mona Lisa might cease to be a work of art unless someone was, at a given point in time, emoting appreciation for her.

Art is such a crazy topic, anyway… there is a huge Wikipedia article on it and it’s even marked as having its neutrality in dispute. 8-O

I can remember a Folsom Library “art” video of someone throwing up on a statue of the virgin Mary. That does not possess “greater than subjective artistic merit”…. that one I know for sure. :-)

]]> By: alissa http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-448 alissa Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:36:40 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-448 No problem, I just like to point out when people contradict themselves (and their arguments ;D). No problem, I just like to point out when people contradict themselves (and their arguments ;D).

]]> By: Ken http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-447 Ken Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:52:22 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-447 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? My thoughts exactly. Maybe we should put together a "real" list. I can think of quite a few that probably weren't listed either. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? My thoughts exactly. Maybe we should put together a “real” list. I can think of quite a few that probably weren’t listed either.

]]> By: WarAxe http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-446 WarAxe Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:12:38 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-446 Yes, but isn't that just the phrase you'd expect from an engineer? :-) I find poetry in the contradiction. :-) Oh, and by the way... thanks for getting us in for free! Don't get me wrong, we had a great time there and I would have paid my way in in a second. Yes, but isn’t that just the phrase you’d expect from an engineer? :-) I find poetry in the contradiction. :-)

Oh, and by the way… thanks for getting us in for free! Don’t get me wrong, we had a great time there and I would have paid my way in in a second.

]]> By: alissa http://negative99.com/music/art-talent-and-the-tyranny-of-the-subjective/#comment-445 alissa Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:05:07 +0000 http://www.negative99.com/archive/105#comment-445 <i>. . . I found to have greater than subjective artistic merit . . . </i> Isn't that an oxymoron? ;) . . . I found to have greater than subjective artistic merit . . .

Isn’t that an oxymoron? ;)

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